[Downtown Victoria] Emaar project | 17- & 11-storeys | Canceled

[Caramia]

Sir, I bow to your photoshop skills.

shiney!

[Dylan Leblanc]

that looks great!

[G-Man]

Very cool. Though I would think that if that was on one of them then the other could be left alone. Kind of a pomo vs modern development.

I assume there are better renderings coming as the ones we have seen don't show the buildings curve as seen in the sketches.

[Ms. B. Havin]

Not bad -- and even w/out the dome, just stepping it back a bit makes a big difference. If someone points me to the Diagrams page for Seattle, maybe I can find modernist building that had an interesting base & roofline (I can never find the diagram pages when I need them, grr!). The top & bottom had these cut-out lattice-work structures in one corner. The cut-outs were the same shape & size as the windows. At the top, they stepped back, too. Wasn't just "decorative," either. There was some sort of plaza at street level, and a terrace or something on top.

[Rob Randall]

At this morning's Committee of the Whole meeting this project was tabled. Only one Councillor (Geoff Young, I believe) voted to move it forward.

Many Councillors preferred the "S" shaped version as it was more interesting although some said that version was too tall and too dense.

Some noted the north tower would dramatically block sunlight onto Yates Street, marring the pedestrian experience.

The Planning Department reiterated their committment to a mid-block walkway, noting that sometimes one has to wait 50 to 100 years to see if they will become successful.

Some said the towers should be different heights.

Following is the letter the Downtown Residents' Association submitted in response to the application:

Re: Proposal for development –819 Yates St.

February 13, 2007

The DRA LUC has had the opportunity to view some of the architectural renderings for the project known as 819 Yates St.

The following comments and concerns were raised by committee members:

-The membership is supportive of the requested density. Recent high-density construction on this block have increased the life and activity on the sidewalks and this project is needed to continue this.

-Several members commented on the plainness of this design compared to the earlier iterations which had pleasing shapes and detailing. Sitting on the Downtown border, this important building will serve as the gateway to the distinctive Harris Green neighbourhood to the east.

-Several members appreciated the clean, modern design, notably the curved facades. One member mentioned flaring the structures at the top would permit more light into the centre core.

-The courtyard garden seems to serve solely as a visual point of interest for residents of the two interior sides of the building. Access to the garden or loitering in the walkway would appear to be discouraged, if not forbidden.

-The developer is urged to make the retail spaces suitable for businesses useful to neighbourhood residents and workers.

-Further information on the development of the sidewalk-level architecture will be needed to ensure it meets the high standards of design sought for signature buildings of this type.

-The LUC is disappointed the supported housing component was removed from this proposal. In the future, more effort must be put to the design and implementation of unconventional affordable housing partnerships.

-Further information on sustainable environmental features including LEED registration, green roof, low energy appliances, water conservation, etc. is required.

-Some noted the buildings end abruptly with a flat roof and that better, more varied articulation of the roofline would present a more attractive feature to the skyline. Varying the heights of the towers would seem to be an improvement especially considering the differing character of Yates and View Streets.

-Little rationale has been provided as to why a public cross-block walkway is necessary at the proposed location. The true mid-point of the block is near the point where the St. Vincent de Paul building and The Wave condo meet. The potential for a pathway at that location was identified in the Harris Green Community Plan and would have lined up with the existing mid-block walkway to the north yet none was created at the time of the construction of the other two buildings. Now the burden of implementing this walkway has been transferred to the existing applicant. The proposed walkway would be bounded on one side by a large wall and a loading dock. The developer has promised to decorate the wall with vintage architectural artifacts. It takes under 30 seconds to walk from the site of the proposed walkway to Blanshard Street. While there are successful walkways in Victoria, there are also many that have failed and are now unwelcoming and unsafe. A full CPTED analysis must be done. The near-term economic prospects for an interior mall-type walkway in this block would also seem to be poor.

-This design leaves the unsightly blank walls of the Empire Capitol 6 theatre and the St. Vincent de Paul tower visible. Bridging this gap with a two or three storey podium on the north side would be visually pleasing and would also replace some of the surface parking due to be lost in the area. The DRA LUC supports reduced car usage and the repurposing of surface parking lots. The City must strive to place parking facilities in areas where they have the least visual impact, preferably underground or above ground behind attractive facades. The dwindling amount of long and short term parking for visitors, consumers, residents and businesses was brought up by neighbours at the public meeting held for this proposal last year.

-Although this project conforms to the zoning bylaws and requires little in the terms of variances, the LUC believes further articulations of the massing, while violating the height limit, would in fact facilitate a building more sympathetic to its neighbours and the existing view corridors, particularly down View Street. The Yates tower could easily accept a height increase with minimal impact to neighbours or viewscapes.

Sincerely,

Robert Randall
Chair, DRA Land Use Committee

[aastra]

The Planning Department reiterated their committment to a mid-block walkway, noting that sometimes one has to wait 50 to 100 years to see if they will become successful.

So if you force developers to include these walkways and then 100 years from now Victorians finally come to the conclusion that they don't work, then what? Fill them in with bricks?

[aastra]

Some noted the north tower would dramatically block sunlight onto Yates Street, marring the pedestrian experience.

This is a good point. Just look at the way the trees on Yates are marring the pedestrian experience with their shadows:



Those monster buildings (3 & 4 stories) on Johnson should have taught us a lesson about angering the sun gods. Perpetual gloom!

Folks, shadowing issues on Yates would be all but the same whether the building is 4 stories, 14 stories, or 44 stories. The shadow of SVDP covers the north sidewalk in this pic. That building is what...7 stories? And the taller floors are set well back from the sidewalk.

[G-Man]

Yup but people still don't quite understand this. Also I guess the current state of affairs on the 800 blk Yates Street must be quite amazing you would not want to disrupt that beauty. When Starbucks and a poorly designed commercial area (the Wave) are the current best attributes it hardly says much about the street as a whole.

[aastra]

That should be the official slogan of the 800 block of Yates.

"A Superior Pedestrian Experience"

[Icebergalley]

Originally Posted by aastra

This is a good point. Just look at the way the trees on Yates are marring the pedestrian experience with their shadows:



Those monster buildings (3 & 4 stories) on Johnson should have taught us a lesson about angering the sun gods. Perpetual gloom!

Folks, shadowing issues on Yates would be all but the same whether the building is 4 stories, 14 stories, or 44 stories. The shadow of SVDP covers the north sidewalk in this pic. That building is what...7 stories? And the taller floors are set well back from the sidewalk.

What time off day and in what season was that shadow shot taken... ?

Interesting the tall slab, Metropolitan? casts it shadow 1/2 way through the proposed site...


edit: and as and after thought, one can see that the View Tower's slab shades almost the entire block on Quadra from View to Yates...

Wonder what the architect's shadow analysis shows..

Also see that 843 Yates is still in place, The Wave is not shown nor is its shadow...

I've been to the 800 block of Yates many many times - mostly around noon year round until The Wave started.. And I have never felt oppressed by shadowing.. as a matter of fact, shade in summer has always been welcomed..

[Mike K.]

This project has undergone another revision, this time with two buildings at 17- and 11-storeys in height, with the tallest of the two reaching up to 65.9 meters. At that height it would be the second tallest building after the recently approved 24-storey [url=http://www.vibrantvictoria.ca/resources/mcp/0013.htm:d35f3]Hudson[/url:d35f3] tower.

It's odd, though, that at only 17-storeys it would be that tall, but that's what the planning docs state.

MCP link: http://www.vibrantvictoria.ca/resources/mcp/0032.htm

[Nparker]

So what is going to get built do you suppose? Which street gets the 17 stories and which one get the 11 stories? And PLEASE let whatever gets built be finished better than The Wave - and have a much better street presence... some decent retail would be nice.

[gumgum]

I would imagine the 17 stories are on Yates.

[Mike K.]

I would think so, but the planning board on-site doesn't mention any specifics.

I too hope the finishing will be better than the Wave. In fact, I saw a ~10cm wide gap x .5cm in the foundation of the Wave on the right side of the Re-start store.

[m0nkyman]

I'll bet cash that the 11 storey is on Yates, and the 17 is on View.

[gumgum]

^What makes you so sure?

[m0nkyman]

Because that's the south side, and when it comes to placating city councillors on shadowing issues, you put the taller on the south side.

[G-Man]

I doubt it they will want as many condos as possible to get south facing sun.

[Rob Randall]

A rough idea of the floorplan. The retail can be divided up into smaller units. The courtyard is a non-accessible "zen" garden that can be viewed from the walkway at the bottom of the picture. Residential access will be from the walkway which will be furnished with elaborate decorated gates at both ends.



This is a side view of the taller Yates tower looking south, along with the floor plan. The shorter tower is on View due to the narrower width of the street and the proximity to the Cathedral.




Here is a drawing of the retail looking north along Yates along with an overhead view of the sidewalk:




Here is another view of the sidewalk and the walkway gate:



I should note that it is unusual for a developer to be asked to provide detailed sketches for a project in its early stages. This will likely come before Committee of the Whole next week.

[Nparker]

Well the sketches look OK, as far as the street level goes. I can't quite picture the building design based on the elevation drawing. I think it is critical that the developer gets the street level right, since the Wave REALLY blew it in this regard (as it did on so many aspects). Please no setbacks at street level. This is the last chance to bring vibrancy to this block of Yates. If it means giving the developer and extra floor or two, can the dunderheads at council allow this to ensure a lively street presence? It appears retail is planned for the View Stret side as well. I think this is a bit of a waste, since, if I am not mistaken, this would be nearly the ONLY retail on the entire block. IMO leave View Street to residences. Add some townhouse units to the street level there. And don't get me started on that useless "mid block" walkway.

[Nparker]

Pardon the repeat posting.

[m0nkyman]

OK. I was wrong. For now.

[m0nkyman]

Originally Posted by Nparker

I think this is a bit of a waste, since, if I am not mistaken, this would be nearly the ONLY retail on the entire block. IMO leave View Street to residences. Add some townhouse units to the street level there. And don't get me started on that useless "mid block" walkway.

You're mistaken. There is quite a bit of retail on that block, starting with the car audio spot, the pharmacy a bit further along, and the live work units in the building just down from this one, as well as the retail on the end of the theatre.

[Nparker]

Perhaps I should have defined retail as th sort of places that if you happened to walk past them you would pop in to browse and maybe buy. I don't think live/work units or the car audio place qualify as such, the latter really being more of a destination. I will give you that the newly opened pharmacy meets my definition of retail. As far as the retail in the View Street side of the theatre, does anyone just happen into this copy place?

[Mike K.]

Food/mass consumption retail on the corners of View and Quadra or Blanshard would be worthwhile but in the middle of the block it'd be tough to survive. That pharmacy on View doesn't get a lot of traffic, I don't think, and the retail space next door is still sitting empty.