[Downtown Victoria] The Hudson Mews | Rentals | HBC redevelopment; Phase II | 12-storeys | U/C

[Mike K.]

Looks like this phase is planned to include some 90-units of rental housing! The phase is officially dubbed "The Hudson Mews."

Public hearing set for downtown rental housing project
By VibrantVictoria.ca
http://vibrantvictoria.ca/?p=1488

The redevelopment of the historic Hudson’s Bay department store property, between Douglas, Blanshard, Fisgard and Herald streets in downtown Victoria, will feature approximately 90 rental units in an upcoming phase dubbed The Hudson Mews, VibrantVictoria.ca has learned. The 12-storey, 120-unit development to be built by Vancouver-based Townline Group of Companies will also include 30 market units (condominiums) and ground floor retail space. A green roof element is planned on the roof of the lower floors jutting out from the western side of the tower. [...]

[gumgum]

Great news.

I'm shocked at this. I would have assumed they would need the pre-sales to get Mews off the ground. They must have lenders that are seeing the benefits being reaped in the very long term. But I suppose that given the relatively slow sales of the Hudson, they knew that if they got this off the ground they would going to have to change their approach.

[Caramia]

From VV's main page: Public hearing set for downtown rental housing project

Public hearing for The Hudson Mews is scheduled for December 10th at 7:30PM at Victoria City Hall.

If people want this project to succeed, I think it is important to get out to this meeting and tell council. I've recently heard stirrings from some of my friends in the anti-density crowd that they are trying to find people to go speak against. If they are successful at rallying, it would be good to have people there from the pro-density, pro-rental housing crowd to provide counter-point.

[G-Man]

I am concerned but it would perhaps not be in good faith for the council to reject the development at least on height or density as those two items had been agreed to in the past. Actually what is the rezoning application for?

Unfortunately I am away but will ensure I write council on the matter.

[concorde]

I'm ok with the rental concept as long as it stays rental for a very long term. What I don't want to see is them build it while its cheap, rent out the units for the short term, and then turn it into a strata complex and sell the units when the real estate market turns.

[Rob Randall]

Rich Coleman and Dean Fortin have an affordable housing announcement at the Hudson site this morning at 10:30.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Rob Randall

Rich Coleman and Dean Fortin have an affordable housing announcement at the Hudson site this morning at 10:30.

$32M from the province, $800k from the City.

For affordable rentals and purchase options.

http://www.bchousing.org/news/news_r...33?pageNumber=

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

A public hearing for 780 Fisgard, a 12-storey, 120-unit residential tower, will be held Dec. 10th. Not sure why there needs to be a public hearing as I was under the assumption that the Hudson phases were already approved.

...so I don't suppose anyone will vote against anything now that the taxpayers own it.

[Caramia]

Fantastic!

[VicHockeyFan]

How are they going to have a mix of owned untis, and rentals in the same building? Do we have that anywhere here? If the "owned unts" are fee-simple, I don't think it can work. Who wants to own a condo over top of social housing? If the "owned" units are some type of co-op, that might be different.

[G-Man]

It happens all over the place now. I am sure it will remain strata but the rental units will all have the same owner. Nothing is stopping anyone from buying 20 or 50 units in a building for that matter and renting them out, in this case that someone will probably be Pacifica or the CRD.

Also the whole Hudson project has a covenant on all the units that will forever allow rentals in those buildings so that is one thing that the strata will not be able to touch.

[Caramia]

I'd buy a condo over social housing and be glad for it. The 834 announcement made me more likely to buy there (I was already considering it). I think that there are a lot of urban people who embrace socio-economic diversity in their building. Beside, fear of the poor and handicapped might protect the building from being bought out by the "luxury urban condo" types who would try to pass a whole bunch of restrictive strata rules.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Caramia

I'd buy a condo over social housing and be glad for it. The 834 announcement made me more likely to buy there (I was already considering it). I think that there are a lot of urban people who embrace socio-economic diversity in their building. Beside, fear of the poor and handicapped might protect the building from being bought out by the "luxury urban condo" types who would try to pass a whole bunch of restrictive strata rules.

I wasn't worried about the people, so much as the maintenance issues. Like it or lump it, renters don't treat their place as well as owners. And if one owner has 75% of the units, they have voting power over the individual owners. I'm not sure if I want to get voted down at every single strata meeting, and I'm sure people would be reluctant to buy if that is going to be the case.

I see projects where there is social and condo, I think the buildings at Topaz and Quadra (SW corner) are like that, but the owned units have a seperate strata corporation or different set-up altogether from the rental units.

[G-Man]

^ I think it would be unfair to say that renters in general do not take good care of a place. I think it has more to do with the state of the building you are renting in and your landlord.

The places at Bay and Esquimalt or View Towers will draw a certain group of renters but the place at the top of Rockland is also rental and you never hear about people worrying about that place. In fact there are a ton of really nice and well maintained rental buidlings around, they are usually more expensive but I don't expect hudson Mews to be cheap. They said it would be 90% of the cost of a regular rented out downtown condo. Well that will still be a hefty price. I would expect it to be in the 800 - 1500 a month range depending on the size of the unit.

[Holden West]

1q

[spanky123]

If they had waited until Townline tanked then they could have got it for a lot less money!

[Holden West]

Isn't this condo scheme similar to the Dockside Green "affordable" housing?

BTW, sorry for the post above. Lately the cat has been using the laptop as a warm bed and I come back to find there's been random posts and Google searches.

[spanky123]

Only because I think that policitians are crooks I looked up the assessed value of 1701 Douglas St. According to BC Assessment, the value of the building is $29.8M which means that the City and Provincial Government paid about $3M MORE than the property was "worth" and not the 80% of market value Fortin and Coleman claimed.

Pretty sweet deal. Hey Dean, I have a few properties I will sell to you for a "discount".

[concorde]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

$32M from the province, $800k from the City.

For affordable rentals and purchase options.

http://www.bchousing.org/news/news_r...33?pageNumber=

Blanshard Court Phase 2 here we come. When will government learn from their mistakes.

[Dylan Leblanc]

Originally Posted by spanky123

Only because I think that policitians are crooks I looked up the assessed value of 1701 Douglas St. According to BC Assessment, the value of the building is $29.8M which means that the City and Provincial Government paid about $3M MORE than the property was "worth" and not the 80% of market value Fortin and Coleman claimed.

Pretty sweet deal. Hey Dean, I have a few properties I will sell to you for a "discount".

Spanky, 1701 Douglas is the entire block bounded by Douglas, Fisgard, Blanshard and Herald Streets. The $32.8 million is the cost to construct the Hudson Mews building. You are comparing apples to oranges in your statement.

Perhaps your motivation is influencing your conclusion?

[spanky123]

Originally Posted by Dylan Leblanc

Spanky, 1701 Douglas is the entire block bounded by Douglas, Fisgard, Blanshard and Herald Streets. The $32.8 million is the cost to construct the Hudson Mews building. You are comparing apples to oranges in your statement.

Perhaps your motivation is influencing your conclusion?

My understanding is that the "entire block" as you put it has been divided into 3 parcels, one of which is the Hudson Mews. The BC and Victoria Governments have agreed to purchase 1 of the 3 parcels for $32.8M. The assessed value of all 3 parcels is $29.8M.

Now I understand that Townline has invested some money in the property but my point is that I don't see how this deal is a 20% discount to "market".

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by spanky123

If they had waited until Townline tanked then they could have got it for a lot less money!

My difficulty is that they did a $32M deal with one developer. Why not set out your proposal and guidelines, and ask for bids from all developers?

[spanky123]

Ok the release has been updated since I first read it. The TC now states that the Government is buying the land at a discount to market and not the units themselves.

Don't know how that gets priced but my earlier comment is not accurate.

[G-Man]

Someone has to build the building too.

[martini]

Hudson deal should have had full disclosure
By Paul Willcocks, Times Colonist December 11, 2009
http://www.timescolonist.com/Hudson+...864/story.html

A neighbouring project ran into trouble and Townline bought that property as well. And now the provincial government has effectively taken over as developer of one of the three buildings on the Bay block.

It's a private-public partnership in reverse. The risk transfer is to taxpayers, not the private partner.

The provincial government will become the developer of the 13-storey tower. It will borrow $32 million and hire a company to do the construction. The news release said "TL Housing Solutions Ltd., an experienced developer of non-market housing, will develop the site."

But in the interests of openness, the news release might have noted that TL Housing is also a Ilich company, with Rick IIich's wife Lauren as the president.

But a better public process is needed for these kinds of projects. Ordinarily, a public project would go to tender so taxpayers would know they were getting the best value. This one was all arranged behind closed doors.

And by taking on the risk of selling condos to recover its money, the government is moving into an area where it has little expertise or experience. If they don't sell, or sell at a discount, taxpayers are on the hook.