[James Bay] 200 Douglas condo | 6-storeys | U/C

[Ms. B. Havin]

Oh of course, the Castana demo included that neat apartment building on Cook... D'oh, how could I leave that off? (And FWIW, Max T. didn't cover himself in glory by taking that apartment building down, especially since the project then stalled, regardless of whose fault that was... )

There's also an apartment building that looks like it was condemned or something up on Cook, nearly at Bay (just south of), on the East side of Cook. It looks like it is (or was?) in very bad shape, but I can't think if it's being rehabbed or demo'd. (Its basement windows were boarded up, with the words "no copper wires" spray painted across them...)

The Mount Douglas at OB Junction got a paint job -- so I hope that means it's not in danger of getting axed. I don't get over to the Gorge or too often into Fernwood, so I don't know what's happening there. But really, this 200 Douglas proposal stands out precisely because it proposes to demolish a well-run/ functioning apartment building. That's rare around here.

[Mike K.]

My understanding is that the apartment Max leveled was in such a state of disrepair that the manager of the building actually spoke to council during the public hearing to outline the health and safety concerns the building posed (this would make the case that preserving the building would be economically unfeasible). Council stared at him wide-eyed when they heard all the details and suggested that staff prepare an immediate inspection by bylaw officers and engineers to gauge whether or not the building should be condemned right then and there :lol For obvious reasons Max wasn't thrilled by their decision.

[aastra]

But that old-world charm is something tenants say they like about the building, concerned with the idea of having a 12-storey cookie-cutter tower take their building’s place.

Old-world charm, my butt. THIS building is cookie-cutter. It's a cookie-cutter lowrise.

The term "cookie-cutter" is not used correctly by most Victorians.

[G-Man]

Also you can buy a few different types of cookie cutters and then you can't tell right?

I believe that the building on Cook St. has recently been bought. If I had a whack of cash I would have bought it too. I would suspect it will be market housing after a reno.

Any chance to speak publicly about this proposal soon? I would love to talk about rental accomodations at a city council meeting.

[Caramia]

The fact that Max deferred maintenance on both of his buildings (the apartment and the house next to it on Sutlej) should hardly have been a valid support for his wish to tear them down. The last tenants of the house had to close off the upstairs cause the roof was leaking. After they moved out, it sat vacant and collected rats and squatters. I really wish we had some kind of mechanism by which we could penalize landlords of vacant or derelict buildings. Instead, we reward them by letting them tear down buildings that, with proper maintenance could have stood for many more years. It just seems wrong.

[Barra]

I wouldn't say that the Emily Carr Apts (200 Douglas St) is particularly beautiful, but it is solidly built. One of the tenants invited us inside and the suites are really nice - sunny, nicely laid out, with hardwood floors. I can see why a developer would want to build $800,000 condos on this site.

As for the proposed tear downs, this is the second proposed apartment tear down for JB in the past few months. I really do thin that 1960's walk-up apartment buildings are at risk, when a developer's return from a condo building that he can sell and walk away from is considerable.

I actually like the design that d'Ambrosio proposed for this site. I think it would look great as a replacement for the Swiftsure (Day's Inn). The design submitted by the Moore/Paterson Group for the Days' Inn site was the worst boring contemporary box that I've seen in ages. The design was savaged by those present at the JBNA meeting when it was submitted. It is proposed to be a Hilton Hotel. The members wanted me to write to the Hilton chain (among others) to let them know how bad it was. So I did.

The JBNA actually DOES want higher density (surprise, surprise) on the government parking lots - Menzies/Kingston/Superior and Superior/Menzies/Michigan. There is a plan for that area - the Legislative Precinct plan - which needs to be updated (in my opinion) to be even more dense than it currently suggests. It would be a great location for mixed development - offices, retail, services and housing. We will be approaching the provincial government to let them know that we'd like them to get on with building on these sites.

The problem that the JBNA had with the 640 Michigan proposal was not so much the density, but the setbacks on the north side. The NW corner of the site is adjacent to a CRD townhouse complex that was built too close to their southern property line. There are a number of units in that complex that face south and have their only windows on the south side. The families living on that side would have been totally boxed in and overshadowed by the proposed development.

[gumgum]

Barra, can you please keep us informed of JB related issues?
It's invaluable to hear up-to-date opinions by members of neighbourhood associations.

[Barra]

Sure, no prob.

Pieta (aka Barra)

[renthefinn]

What's wrong with having to look at another building out your window? I have to pay big for it, I can't afford a partially unobstructed view let alone an unobstructed one, supportive housing shouldn't have to pay for these privileges? Makes me think I should quit my decent paying job and apply for disability so I can demand a view from my supportive housing!

[Nparker]

Touche Ren!

[Barra]

This is about land use planning, planning that is appropriate for the site, and the overall lack of affordable rental housing in Victoria.

Generally speaking, if the city allows the demolition of well built rental property that is currently available at a reasonable rent, then they need to come up with a "no net loss" policy where the developer is required to provide low rent housing either on the site or on another site. Other municipalities have come up with ways to deal with this.

And if any of you well educated critics would like to change places with a disabled person in order to get supported housing, I'm sure they would be happy to give you the opportunity. And if you are successful at completing the 20 page application form for income assistance that these people have to cope with, you will be doing well, indeed......

[Mike K.]

Honestly, is that really an issue? If income assistance requires a 20-page application, it requires a 20-page application. If someone requires aid in filling out their application aid is most definitely available. But that is beyond the point.

Anyways, this building, if in fact it is in good shape (both physically inside/outside and seismically), does not need to be demolished and the developer would be wise to sit on it until it requires substantial renovations that make building anew a reasonable alternative. There are plenty of empty parking lots that deserve infill more than the lot in question.

[Caramia]

That aid is definitely not available Mike. I've helped a couple of people through that process, one with autism, one with debilitating arthritis (the kind where your hands turn into useless claws and your joints need to be replaced) Both were people you would look at and immediately know that there is no way that this person is going to be able to be functional in the work force. Nevertheless, I was totally confused by the process and the forms, and it took months to get them through all the hoops correctly, during which time both individuals had to rely on the food bank, soup kitchens and goodwill of friends and "do-gooder" strangers. I found this difficult with an MA and a fully functional brain. I can't imagine dealing with that bureaucracy if I was actually sick. I suppose it has to be this difficult, in order to convince people that it isn't the "easy way"

I actually agree with the no-net loss idea, however I think it should be rolled in with density bonusing and other incentives, so that the developers don't have to cut corners and can still make the projects viable. Replacing old rental with new rental is a good thing in general.

I also think that covenants that restrict strata councils from forbidding renting of suits should be standard in all new condos. It should not be legal to forbid someone to rent out their property.

[Mike K.]

Originally Posted by Caramia

I suppose it has to be this difficult, in order to convince people that it isn't the "easy way"

And I would expect nothing less. Government can't show compassion to one segment of the population and rear its ugly head at another. Who are they to judge, right?

Anyways, for the most part the government takes care of those who require assistance. We often seem to forget just how lucky we are as Canadians to have the safety nets that we do. Much of the world would only dream to have a 20-page form between them and the government assistance Canadians are privy to.

[Mike K.]

If anyone is interested in seeing a small model of this proposal, it's located at Frank D'ambrosio's office at Selkirk Waterfront (on the bottom floor of the new four-storey condo with the wood paneling).

It's a fairly large (think bulk, like those 13-storey brick buildings in Vic West near the Esq. border) building with what appeared to be a slight curvature on all(?) sides. Lots of glass, though, which is always nice. Is it out of place among the other condos along Douglas that face the park? Not really. Definitely fits the "status quo" for that area of Douglas.

[Rob Randall]

This proposal will be presented to the Fairfield CA in a few weeks. The architect is Charles Kierultf of dH+K.

[G-Man]

Do you mean the JBNA? As Fairfield is about half a K from here.

[Rob Randall]

Oops, my mistake.

[Holden West]

Victoria News

James Bay hosting AGM

The James Bay Neighbourhood Association will hold its annual general meeting tonight (April 9) at 6:30 p.m. at New Horizons, 234 Menzies St.

Elections will be held for executive positions.

Following the AGM, the association will hold its regular monthly meeting for April. On the agenda ia a discussion of zoning variances for a property at 200 Douglas St., a grant submission for an air traffic noise study and other committee reports.

[Baro]

anyone who takes a picture of the model and posts it here will get a gold star

[cluseau]

Did anyone go to this meeting? Mrs B?

[Ms. B. Havin]

Originally Posted by cluseau

Mrs B?

Moi? No, madame was indisposed... Actually I forgot about this, been really busy with work-related matters...

Anyone else go?

[cluseau]

JBNA has posted the minutes for the April meeting on their website (jbna.org, right hand side).

Seems the developer changed architects, and lowered the bldg to 7 storeys, but still requires variances.

[Rob Randall]

The proposal was tabled this morning in order to gather more info on including some sort of below market housing on the ground floor.

Because the existing zoning calls for no residential on the ground floor (a relic of the Corbusier era of tower design) the planned ground floor suites would count as an extra floor. The JBNA would like these suites made affordable in return. Council seemed to feel like it was a fair trade. Councillor Madoff felt the design of the building was "dull".

[aastra]

If they could find a way to insert some affordable townhouses on the ground floor I'd be rooting for this one in a big way. Assuming, of course, that the design is good.

...the planned ground floor suites would count as an extra floor. The JBNA would like these suites made affordable in return. Council seemed to feel like it was a fair trade.

A "fair trade" for what? So now developers who want to design a decent ground floor have to pay for the privilege? As you describe it, it sounds completely nuts.