[Vic West] Victoria International Marina | Proposed

[gumgum]

Marina plan floated for Victoria harbour
Mega-yachts would dock in front of Songhees condos if proposal proceeds
Carla Wilson, Times Colonist
Published: Wednesday, May 07, 2008

[gumgum]

Maybe a separate thread on this should be started. It's a biggy.

The NIMBY counter's going to be smoking at the end of this battle.

[Mike K.]

Wow...that's pretty gnarly.

We better build that to recover the $1.6 million+legal costs (which the article doesn't mention) of our taxpayer dollars the heads at City Hall already lost over this proposal

With Herb Kwan as the architect, does this proposal wreak of a flip or of never being built, or is that just me?

And get a load of this:

"A bronze scuplture of a North Pacific Giant Octopus climbing out of the water, hanging onto a lamp standard, is planned as public art, Evans said."

[Rorschach]

Can the Coho still get through there? Seems like an obstruction to the float planes and the Coho. What's it going to look like filled with mega-yachts? In principle, I like it and it will bring a lot of money into Victoria.

We must already have some kind of harbor traffic control in place, right?

[Holden West]

The reason there's that little half-circle inlet in front of the condo was that was supposed to be the location of a little marina but the condo tenants vetoed that idea. Now instead of a few quaint little sailboats the residents will be rewarded with dozens of diesel-spewing megayachts! And they think the kerosene fumes of the floatplanes are bad! They ain't seen nothin' yet!

[Nparker]

I love this proposal and its potential to bring some life to the graveyard that is the Songhees. What a joke that a resident feels it will impede her ability to walk in the neighbourhood. Do these people really feel that by purchasing a condo here they have exclusive control of all harbour development and activities in perpetuity? Why anyone would prefer this sterile wasteland to a place where people actually congregate is beyond me. And gawd forbid there be any walkable amenities in the neighbourhood. We're the Songhees and we love the fact that we need a car to do any sort of business. Who wants to be able to walk to a store, a restaurant or any other activity?

[Caramia]

"This is the first one [marina] in Canada that is designed for mega-yachts," said Bob Evans, who, as president of Pacific National Investments, was an original developer of Songhees lands. "There's no marina on the West Coast that can handle all of them because the slips are too small."


Original plans for Songhees included a marina, Evans said. "This finishes this area of the Songhees."


The area was also the focus of an 11-year fight over the city's decision to downzone the two water lots from three storey residential/commercial to one-storey commercial. Victoria changed the zoning in 1993 after residents complained the plans would spoil their water views.


Pacific National complained smaller buildings wouldn't be feasible and argued it should be compensated for work done based on the expectation the water development would proceed. The dispute went up to the Supreme Court of Canada, ending in 2004 when the city was ordered to pay Pacific National $1.6 million.

Hrmm cause doing business with this guy has turned out so well for Victoria in the past...

[Mike K.]

What happened was the City flat out reneged on a rezoning he had secured. He had every right to sue and in the process taxpayers lost millions.

[jaylow]

The planes have over 200 feet between the breakwater part and pelly island too pass.
here is a link to the Harbour authorities map of traffic flow of the harbour:
http://www.victoriaharbour.org/uploaded/vhts.jpg
edit: realized the link opens a very small picture,
go here for and click on the picture to open a PDF of the map:
http://www.victoriaharbour.org/marinas.php

[2F2R]

Typically typical - - move in beside a busy harbor then complain about the harbor activity – move beside the airport and then complain about the planes – there was originally supposed to be two, two story “floating” buildings in front of the half circle – In the planning stage I thought would have, architecturally, been the nicest complex around – it was supposed to have a lot more public art – but, they build the condo first and the residents shot down what would have been the best part of it – typical.

[Ms. B. Havin]

Does anyone have any links re. the market for this sort of thing? Are there dozens of mega-yachts cruising offshore, just waiting for a chance to dock in Victoria? (Not disputing it, I'd just like more info.) And how big is a mega-yacht? Smaller than the Clipper? Same as?

[aastra]

Now instead of a few quaint little sailboats the residents will be rewarded with dozens of diesel-spewing megayachts! And they think the kerosene fumes of the floatplanes are bad! They ain't seen nothin' yet!

This proposal actually makes me angry (except for the bronze octopus...I like that because it's so silly). The reason it makes me angry is because it's huge and the original marina that was supposed to be there was just right. Yet ANOTHER case of people opposing something appropriate (in this case, something that every condo buyer KNEW was part of the Songhees plans), only to have something huge (and likely inappropriate and/or problematic) come down the pipe a few years later. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

And the possibility (however unlikely) that some naysayers might actually support this in the hope that it would be a step toward ejecting the Coho and the floatplanes just makes my skin crawl.

[jaylow]

the web page might have links to market information
http://victoriainternationalmarina.ca/

[aastra]

The area is windy, not protected and is unsuitable for a marina, she said. "It is a beautiful walking place ... He's proposing to put in a marina and a restaurant. We really don't need that."

It was designed for a marina but it's unsuitable for a marina.

And they don't need a restaurant. Important point: they live there. They can go home and open the fridge. The rest of us (tourists included) don't live there. We might enjoy a restaurant on the waterfront. But who the hell are we?

[Ms. B. Havin]

Originally Posted by jaylow

the web page might have links to market information
http://victoriainternationalmarina.ca/

Thanks, jaylow.

The mega yacht slips will accommodate vessels of 65 to 135 feet in length. These yachts are the ultimate in luxury from around the world, most manned by professional crews.

Over the last two decades, the number of these magnificent mega-yachts has increased by over one thousand percent. Cities around the world are welcoming the economic benefits brought by these yachts. Special facilities and state of the art amenities are required to accommodate these high-tech water craft.

http://victoriainternationalmarina.ca

The three different Victoria Clippers are between 114 and 132 feet in length.

Also from the same site (different page):

In 2005, yacht carrier ships brought approximately 34 large yachts to Victoria from the Caribbean, Florida, and California. In 2006, four carrier shiploads doubled the amount, and in 2007 approximately 12 shiploads were scheduled. Crew and owners then boarded the yachts for cruising on the west coast. With the Victoria International Marina, Victoria will now be able to host these mega yachts in our harbour over longer periods.
(...)
The Victoria area is poised for exponential growth in this area. The mega yacht cruise industry has historically followed the routes of the major cruise lines at points around the world. The BC Coast and Alaska are becoming some of the more popular 'must-see' areas of the world.

[Baro]

Wow looks awesome, but a few selfish retirees living next door will surely destroy it. The area was designed and approved for a marina but we threw away a million and a half preventing it. The condo owners should have footed the bill. Our tax dollars went towards pretty much subsidizing their fears. Now how about we let some yacht's subsidize an awesome statue and some life into the area!

[gumgum]

Taken from victoriainternationalharbour.ca

“The proposed Victoria International Marina project does not pose any undo risk to seaplanes operating in and out of the Victoria Harbour.”
Wayne McNeal, President
McNeal & Associates Consultants Ltd.

"Hyack Air fully supports the proposed Victoria International Marina...”
James T. Allard, Vice President
Hyack Air

“Will be a definite asset to the harbour."
Captain John (Jack) Bragg, MNI, President
The Greater Victoria Marine Air Safety Society

Therefore, I doubt floatplane activity is threatened.

Plenty of letters of support from all types of community leaders as well.

[gumgum]

edit:


Does somebody have one of those old pics of the Inner Harbour with several Coho size ship in the picture?

[Holden West]

[gumgum]

^Thanks West.

Now does that not prove that there's plenty of room for these megayachts and the Coho all in one Harbour?

[Mike K.]

Don't forget that Victoria is now a stopping point for luxury yacht delivery firms (at least one). They wouldn't have picked Victoria if it wasn't a sensible place to drop off yachts for Canadian buyers, so I'm going to guess that a lot of out of towners will dock in Victoria instead of Vancouver (it saves around 4 our 5 hours of sailing time if they're leaving the straight).

[rjag]

I for one would love to see Victoria become a destination for boats of this calibre. The money that is spent provisioning them is phenomonal. Not to mention the tourists would flock to them. Theres no downside to something like this.

This is a typical harbour in Cap D'Antibes in the south of France

[Baro]

We're going to hear the usual crap. Specially the usual class-war ******** embarrassing people spout all the time. Even though servicing these ridiculous floating wallets is a great way to grab money from foolish mega-wealthy people and give it to local businesses and residents we're going to hear ideological knee-jerks against "selling our harbour to the rich!"

I really doubt this will go through unless there's some actual political backbone.

-Rich People
-Building something new
-Environmental 'concerns'

that's generally 3 strikes in Victoria...

[Mike K.]

Right, because Songhees dwellers subsist of government subsidies. But I share Baro's opinion that they'll no less cry foul over richer folk wanting a piece of their paradise.

[aastra]

If I were a rich person living on the Songhees, I'd be darned offended at the thought of a really rich person picking up his new yacht at the marina down below while I'm parking my lousy sailboat out in Sidney like a sucker.

The Songhees is for rich people. It's not for really rich people.