Tipping and service industry discussion

[Holden West]

If you're saying Hitchens can occasionally be a tad over the top I might agree. That's why I love him.

You know what really steams my lobster? Servers who can't use a tray. It's a simple thing. A cork-lined plastic disc 18 inches in diameter. It's a brilliant invention. It's easily balanced. You can load dishes and glasses on it, tilt it at an angle without anything sliding off and you still have one hand free to drop off that cheque or pick up a dropped fork.

Except no-one uses it anymore. It's inexplicably a lost art. I shake my head watching servers struggle to clear a table using only two hands. Or worse, a server taking four or five glasses away at a time by pinching the rims (Mrs. West calls this unhygienic practice "pearl diving"). Do you really think servers always wash their hands after doing this? Servers double their work load simply because they have a single used plate in each hand and are therefore helpless until they get to the dishwasher area to drop them off.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Holden West

You know what really steams my lobster? Servers who can't use a tray. It's a simple thing. A cork-lined plastic disc 18 inches in diameter. It's a brilliant invention. It's easily balanced. You can load dishes and glasses on it, tilt it at an angle without anything sliding off and you still have one hand free to drop off that cheque or pick up a dropped fork.

Except no-one uses it anymore. It's inexplicably a lost art. I shake my head watching servers struggle to clear a table using only two hands. Or worse, a server taking four or five glasses away at a time by pinching the rims (Mrs. West calls this unhygienic practice "pearl diving"). Do you really think servers always wash their hands after doing this? Servers double their work load simply because they have a single used plate in each hand and are therefore helpless until they get to the dishwasher area to drop them off.

I've seen the very good, and the very bad. I know one girl that is attached to that tray, and she can swing it at a 90-degree angle, while running in circles and going under a limbo bar. She was awesome, I miss her.

[Holden West]

You don't have the little icons above the reply box? The one with the globe and the chain link like this: ?

[VicHockeyFan]

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[VicHockeyFan]

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[VicHockeyFan]

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[Holden West]

70. Never deliver a hot plate without warning the guest. And never ask a guest to pass along that hot plate.

A related phenomenon: why can't we as guests resist grasping this hot plate away from the server instead of simply letting them place it down in front of us? "Careful, this plate is hot", the server warns. "Aaah! You're right!", the customer invariably wails. The hotter the plate, the longer we want it sizzling in our fingertips. Why do we do this? We don't do it with cold plates. Are our boring lives so devoid of danger we subconsciously seek such a masochistic experience?

[piltdownman]

I too hate the "pinching the rims", its just gross. I also think its a foodsafe violation if my memory isn't fail me. And yes I know many of those rules get broken, but when they are blatantly broken in front of customers there is something very wrong.

As the lack of trays, its shocking. Especially when you have a server that has to make two trips to bring four people drinks because they can only carry two at a time. I must admit my tray skills were never perfect, but I still take pride in being able to bring a tray of drinks ordered at the bar to my friends across the bar.

[hotdoglegz]

Originally Posted by Holden West

A related phenomenon: why can't we as guests resist grasping this hot plate away from the server instead of simply letting them place it down in front of us? "Careful, this plate is hot", the server warns. "Aaah! You're right!", the customer invariably wails. The hotter the plate, the longer we want it sizzling in our fingertips. Why do we do this? We don't do it with cold plates. Are our boring lives so devoid of danger we subconsciously seek such a masochistic experience?

you can tell somebody that there are a million stars in the universe and they will believe you. Tell them that their plate is hot, they have to touch it for themselves.

[VicHockeyFan]

My date and I, after being delivered a set of hot wings and a set of salt and pepper wings at Smith's Pub, along with 4 napkins tonight.

Us: "Could we get a finger bowl by any chance?"

Waitress/bartender: "No, we don't do finger bowls."

OK, so they have a no finger bowl policy. Hard to imagine why, we were among three sets of poeple there, and the bowl (of soup) my date had earlier would be perfect for a finger bowl. I mean the same container style, if they had more than one.

A finger bowl usually consists of 1) hot water, 2) a lemon wedge, and 3) nothing else.

Hard to see why they would have a policy. Easy to see why I think they are lame.

[Holden West]

You should have tried ordering a cup of hot water with lemon instead.

I'm gobsmacked at why they wouldn't provide one after being asked. I worked in a restaurant that had finger bowls. They were never a problem.

A lot of restaurants and hotels have a policy that any reasonable request is fulfilled. At least it was in the olden days.

[G-Man]

Perhaps someone sued them when they got a finger bowl full of hot water

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Holden West

You should have tried ordering a cup of hot water with lemon instead.

I'm gobsmacked at why they wouldn't provide one after being asked. I worked in a restaurant that had finger bowls. They were never a problem.

A lot of restaurants and hotels have a policy that any reasonable request is fulfilled. At least it was in the olden days.

I understand if they decide that as policy, they don't do them with every order. But upon request?

9 out of 10 times, I would not have accepted her answer. I would have had a hearty discussion, in pleasant tones, on why the request was denied. Granted, by the end of it the waitress would not have liked me one bit. But it's not like me to leave that alone. For some reason I did.

[Holden West]

"The Buffalo (NY) Health Department has taken steps to rid the city of brass finger bowls. A recent investigation showed that such bows were in use in over half of the restaurants and in some of the hotels. Health Commissioner Fronczack said that the brass bowls were unsanitary and spread disease, because it was difficult to cleanse them thoroughly. The Health Commissioner did not object to the use of glass bowls if the waiter rinsed the bowl in boiling water after it had been used."

American Practitioner, April, 1913

[Bob Fugger]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

Us: "Could we get a finger bowl by any chance?"

Waitress/bartender: "No, we don't do finger bowls."

OK, so they have a no finger bowl policy.

My response to stupid policies like that is a no tipping policy - which, if you know my general policy on tipping, says a lot.

[G-Man]

Anyone that has been a server knows that this person really just didn't want to make the bowl up right?

To be honest there were quite a few times when we were out of things because i didn't want the hassle.

"I'll have a coconut daiquiri."

"Oh Geez we are fresh out of coconut syrup today."

[gumgum]

Smith's has the worst servers in downtown Victoria, so I'm not surprised.
I go there for the music and the beer but I always leave shaking my head at the stupidity.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by G-Man

Anyone that has been a server knows that this person really just didn't want to make the bowl up right?

To be honest there were quite a few times when we were out of things because i didn't want the hassle.

"I'll have a coconut daiquiri."

"Oh Geez we are fresh out of coconut syrup today."

Ya, I understand this. No bartender is pleased when 8 people in a row want a drink that requires a blender as part of the operation.

There was only two other sets of people in the place.

Now, she would have had to gone into the kitchen to get it, and YES, I understand some cooks are assholes and would consider a major intrusion if she went in there and got it herself.

But here is the thing about finger-bowls. If anyone knows me, you know that I'm likely wearing at least one item of clothing that requires professional drycleaning. And if you deliver me something that can not be eaten with knife and fork, then I'm gonna want to make sure I can clean my hands. For example, I don't eat fries with my hands, I use knife and fork. I also use KNIFE and fork, you won't see me at the table with fork in right hand, and knife unheld. So, when I get 20 wings (10 hot, between two of us), 4 napkins ain't gonna cut it. And I'm also sure the waitress doesn't particularly like clearing a plate heaped up with napkins full of hot sauce too. No one is a fan of brushing against others food upon cleanup.

On a side note, Smith's has a City notice on the door, indicating they are applying to extend their licence to 2am on Friday and Sat. nights from their current 1am. Interesting - I was invlolved with an application indentical to that with the last council, and we were turned down 5-4 by council. IIRC, Fortin, TJ were part of the NOs, Coleman and Holland part of the YESes. I'll look up my notes on the others.

[G-Man]

^ Usually coffee machines in a server station have a hot water spout, that is what I always used. The less time upsetting the kitchen staff the better, as they control your staff meals.

[Bob Fugger]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

But here is the thing about finger-bowls. If anyone knows me, you know that I'm likely wearing at least one item of clothing that requires professional drycleaning. And if you deliver me something that can not be eaten with knife and fork, then I'm gonna want to make sure I can clean my hands. For example, I don't eat fries with my hands, I use knife and fork.

Do you eat your Snickers bar with a knife and fork, too? *snicker*

[Bingo]

The first time I saw a finger bowl I complained that the soup was a bit thin, and that I didn't know it came with the meal.

As for french fries the only way to enjoy them is wrapped in an newspaper cone with the malt vinegar leaking out and down your arm.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by G-Man

Anyone that has been a server knows that this person really just didn't want to make the bowl up right?

To be honest there were quite a few times when we were out of things because i didn't want the hassle.

"I'll have a coconut daiquiri."

"Oh Geez we are fresh out of coconut syrup today."

Ah, but the conspiracy thickens.

So tonight, I went to the largest bar and entertainment complex in the city (completely forgetting Ross Crockford and I had a date at the NPNA meeting - I'm sure he held his own there). I happened to be sitting next to one of the owners. He ordered a bunch of wings, and ordered up a bunch of extra plates for those of us sitting around him. Of course, I asked him if we could get finger bowls. He promptly asked the server, and indeed she brought them, but full of cold water.

WTF?

Granted, this place only runs cold water through their bathroom sinks, but still, could we have had some warm water in the bowls?

[concorde]

As a general rule I tip 10% for average service, 15% for good service.

what really angers me is the automatic 20% tip for groups of say 8 or more. what that says to me they don't have to do anything special, just provide average service and automatically get an inflated tip. In some cases I've just taken a pen, scratched out their automatic tip and paid in cash, leaving no tip.

[yodsaker]

Its my money and the tip is up to me. Period. Full stop.
Do the job properly, you get a tip. I know all about the wage disparity yadayada.
Do your job in a lazy, inefficient, surly manner and mess up my experience, you don't get a tip.
Pretty simple once you get past the entitlement mindset.

[G-Man]

^

what really angers me is the automatic 20% tip for groups of say 8 or more. what that says to me they don't have to do anything special, just provide average service and automatically get an inflated tip. In some cases I've just taken a pen, scratched out their automatic tip and paid in cash, leaving no tip.

The added on tip is there because in general when ten bozos go out for drinks each of them assumes that someone else has covered their tip or worse someone thinks they can comp their night on your tips.

I cannot count the amount of times I have chased people into parking lots to get five bucks just cover the full 400 dollar bill. At least that way they know that I am sitting there out 20 bucks after my tip outs.

If you don't like the rule don't go to places that have it or make sure you know how much your friends are actually paying.

No server would ask for a rule like this if it wasn't necessary, it caps your tip and with a GOOD group you can work 25% or more if you provide really prompt accurate service.