Mobile Technology

[bluefox]

Another day, another negative article about RIM in the Globe, and, yes, another quote from you-know-who.

Oh, and bonus points because this was the top story on their website at the time I saw it.

[...]

But after several reports of failed talks between RIM and potential buyers, National Bank Financial analyst Kris Thompson suggested the reason for the recent drop off could be that RIM is now being judged on its deteriorating metrics, and not speculation...

[...]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle2421384/

Seriously. It's getting ridiculous now.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by Sparky

Crap..can't find her card it must be at work. bluefox this sounded legit. I talked to our Telus provider for our business cell phones (we have 25 together with a sister company) and he couldn't believe it either.

There is only one way to satisfy yourself. ( Crap again I can't find a phone number for them on the Mayfair Mall Page)

Call them at Uptown and ask for their number.

I wouldn't make this story up. It's news breaking in this industry.

I called Best Buy this morning, explained what you had told me (I said a friend had just been offered so-and-so), tried to explain it to the rep on the phone at least 2-3 different ways, using both simple language and industry language, and they had absolutely no idea what I was talking about.

I also asked if maybe the credits were just for business clients and they said that there were currently no special promotions like that, either in general or for business clients. The only thing currently exclusive to Bell and Telus clients is a $25 gift card for trading in an old handset. Even if the promotion is expired now, they didn't seem to know anything about it.

They confirmed that, from time to time, Best Buy Mobile does offer additional in-store rebates over and above what the service providers may offer, but there is no program right now to pay a customer's cancellation fees to that extent, and they did say it would be them, not the service providers, offering these additional rebates or credits.

Sounds to me like maybe the rep you spoke to was cooking the math a bit (or was combining a bunch of promotions) to make it seem more appealing. At the same time, I find that odd... considering Best Buy reps are not on commission.

I can't seem to get any confirmation of that offer you were talking about, so I'm now even more confused than before. However, the stores I called were in Vancouver, not the one at Mayfair (but again, it seems odd that only one store would have that kind of promotion).

Hmm.

[Sparky]

Mike is at Mayfair Best Buy right now. Stay tuned.

[Mike K.]

Ok, so here goes. I had to call Sparky several times just to get the facts straight as the reps were wondering what I was going on about -- I guess they're new and not entirely sure what's up and what's not given the number of different plans and carriers they represent.

So here's the deal as I understand it. You buy the phone for $160, get a minimum $50/month plan (minutes+data for Telus; minutes or data optional for Rogers). You sign on to a 3-year term. Should you wish to break the 3-year term, you pay a $50 cancellation fee plus the difference between the outstanding amount on your discounted phone and the time left on your contract.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

Ok, so here goes. I had to call Sparky several times just to get the facts straight as the reps were wondering what I was going on about -- I guess they're new and not entirely sure what's up and what's not given the number of different plans and carriers they represent.

So here's the deal as I understand it. You buy the phone for $160, get a minimum $50/month plan (minutes+data for Telus; minutes or data optional for Rogers). You sign on to a 3-year term. Should you wish to break the 3-year term, you pay a $50 cancellation fee plus the difference between the outstanding amount on your discounted phone and the time left on your contract.

How do they measure the time left in your contract in dollars? I get the rest of it but is it the standard $20/month for the months remaining or is there some other metric used?

Just sounds like a glorified early upgrade credit to me, but with the caveat that if you want to switch providers you just pay a cancellation fee and Best Buy Mobile takes care of the dirty work. Nothing special.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

So here's the deal as I understand it. You buy the phone for $160, get a minimum $50/month plan (minutes+data for Telus; minutes or data optional for Rogers). You sign on to a 3-year term. Should you wish to break the 3-year term, you pay a $50 cancellation fee plus the difference between the outstanding amount on your discounted phone and the time left on your contract.

OK, let's try this one last time.

First let's just concentrate on the hardware.

The iPhone 4s costs $649. You give them a deposit of $159 so you owe a balance of $490.

You sign up for a 3 year (cancelable) usage contract (AKA "plan") (example Telus) $50-60 per month depending on your data and voice minutes needs.

For every month that you pay for your plan, Telus will deduct $13.61 off of the balance of what you owe on your hardware (starting at $490)

If you pay for 36 months of plan you owe them nothing.

If you decide after 1 year (as an example) that you want to cancel the plan and move to lower Uganda (or go with another provider) there is a cancellation fee of $50 and you have to pay the remainder of what you owe on the purchase of the phone.

You do not pay anything else.

If you have any questions call Whitney at Best Buy Cellular at Mayfair. If you can't find her number PM me. ( I didn't think it was fair to put her number on the internet.)

I had her write out the numbers for me based on a 1 year cancellation.

In closing there is no outstanding amount left on your contract that you owe.

[sebberry]

Sparky, that sounds almost identical to the way it works on my Bell plan. I paid $199 for the phone and they deduct $15 per month from the balance. Not sure what the full "retail" price of my phone is.

[G-Man]

None of this addresses the extortion taking place of selling phones for more than tablets (including ipads) or laptops or desktop computers when they actually cost less to produce.

[Sparky]

No it doesn't G-Man. We were hoping that you would go undercover and find out who is cooking up those deals in the backroom.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Sparky, that sounds almost identical to the way it works on my Bell plan. I paid $199 for the phone and they deduct $15 per month from the balance. Not sure what the full "retail" price of my phone is.

Yes it might be the same, if you can cancel your 3 year contract half way through???

[sebberry]

I would have to check to see what the early termination fee is for my plan. I just know that's how the early buyout works for my phone should I want something shinier.

[Sparky]

I think the key to this conversation was that in the past, the provider would subsidize the cost of the phone.......but only on the condition that you commit to a non cancelable contract for (in most cases) 3 years.

I would be interested in knowing what Bell would say to you if you wanted to terminate your contract.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by G-Man

None of this addresses the extortion taking place of selling phones for more than tablets (including ipads) or laptops or desktop computers when they actually cost less to produce.

Did you buy your house for the same price it cost to produce?

What does the selling price have to do with production costs? I'll give you a hint, it has very little to do with it. I bought a PlayBook for $199 a few weeks back that sold for $499 a few months back.

I bought some pop at the dollar store today, $1.00 for 2.4L (best price at Wellburn's $1.59 for 2L). Chips, $1 for 140g (best price at Wellburn's $3.49 for 240g).

And I know you have some fancy figures that tell you what something costs, but does that really take into account the R&D, the patents, the expertise gained by making something else, sourcing materials that are excess to another operation etc. All the stuff that goes into building a phone? I can buy light bulbs for something like 20 cents at the dollar store. But let me tell you, if light bulbs had not existed for many years previous, nobody would be able to make one for less than $10 today. So today's price reflects all that history. Your iPhone doesn't have that long a history, but if it had none, and you needed one built today, it'd cost $5000.

So I don't buy your "rip-off" claims on the price of a phone.

• Video Link < Rated PG-14

[Mike K.]

Ok, this makes much more sense now. Thanks, sparky.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by Sparky

[...]

So, yes, in essence, an early hardware upgrade program.

Originally Posted by sebberry

Sparky, that sounds almost identical to the way it works on my Bell plan. I paid $199 for the phone and they deduct $15 per month from the balance. Not sure what the full "retail" price of my phone is.

It is the exact same. The only difference is Telus is making it sound like you can cancel your contract at any time, when it is, in essence, still a term contract, and you are still paying to get out of your service plan when you decide to leave.

Bell does not charge this additional $50 cancellation fee that Sparky refers to. Just the remainder of your contract in months x $20.

[bluefox]

"Telus Mobility - Clear & Simple Device Upgrades"

http://www.telusmobility.com/en/comm...nytimeUpgrades

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

Did you buy your house for the same price it cost to produce?

What does the selling price have to do with production costs? I'll give you a hint, it has very little to do with it. I bought a PlayBook for $199 a few weeks back that sold for $499 a few months back.

I bought some pop at the dollar store today, $1.00 for 2.4L (best price at Wellburn's $1.59 for 2L). Chips, $1 for 140g (best price at Wellburn's $3.49 for 240g).

And I know you have some fancy figures that tell you what something costs, but does that really take into account the R&D, the patents, the expertise gained by making something else, sourcing materials that are excess to another operation etc. All the stuff that goes into building a phone? I can buy light bulbs for something like 20 cents at the dollar store. But let me tell you, if light bulbs had not existed for many years previous, nobody would be able to make one for less than $10 today. So today's price reflects all that history. Your iPhone doesn't have that long a history, but if it had none, and you needed one built today, it'd cost $5000.

So I don't buy your "rip-off" claims on the price of a phone.

Well then explain my post from a few days back then. Two products from the same company with the same capacity hard drive. The iphone 4s and the New Ipad. The iPhone costs far less to produce than the iPad and yet right now today it is cheaper to walk in and buy an iPad than it is an iPhone.

It is very clearly a ripoff. If you can give a valid reason that the iPhone should cost more than an iPad other than extorting people into long term contracts I will buy you a doughnut. I am not saying at all that cost is a valid price point buy the way.

Here is my post from before

Originally Posted by G-Man
Can someone tell me why cell phone retail prices are allowed to be so inflated?

For example isuppli says that the new iPad costs about 316 dollars to make the 16 gb model and it retails in Canada for about 520 dollars. Also according to isuppli the iPhone 4s costs 196 dollars to make the 16 gb version and yet it retails for 649 dollars.

If the iPhone had the same markup as the iPad it would retail for 330 dollars or about half of what it is currently being sold for.

So the phone prices are being artificially inflated to the point that the consumer cannot logically choose to buy it and instead is forced to be locked into a contract. There is some sort of term for this sort of strategy...

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by G-Man

The iPhone costs far less to produce than the iPad and yet right now today it is cheaper to walk in and buy an iPad than it is an iPhone.

The 16GB iPhone 4S retails for $649 outright. The 16GB "new" iPad with Wi-Fi and mobile network capability also retails for $649 outright. You've got a good point but to compare connectivity specs shows identical pricing. The only way to get an iPad cheaper is to buy a previous model or one with no 3G/4G capability.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by bluefox

So, yes, in essence, an early hardware upgrade program.

It is the exact same. The only difference is Telus is making it sound like you can cancel your contract at any time, when it is, in essence, still a term contract, and you are still paying to get out of your service plan when you decide to leave.

Bell does not charge this additional $50 cancellation fee that Sparky refers to. Just the remainder of your contract in months x $20.

I agree with you bluefox, the only difference between Bell and Best Buy (apparently Telus does not offer this difference at their retailers or web page) is the following.

Cost to terminate a 36 month contract after 1 year.

Best Buy (Telus) $50
Bell $20 X 24 months = $480

That's the only difference.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by bluefox

The 16GB iPhone 4S retails for $649 outright. The 16GB "new" iPad with Wi-Fi and mobile network capability also retails for $649 outright. You've got a good point but to compare connectivity specs shows identical pricing. The only way to get an iPad cheaper is to buy a previous model or one with no 3G/4G capability.

Fair point. So they are the same price. Still makes no sense at all.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by Sparky

I agree with you bluefox, the only difference between Bell and Best Buy (apparently Telus does not offer this difference at their retailers or web page) is the following.

Cost to terminate a 36 month contract after 1 year.

Best Buy (Telus) $50
Bell $20 X 24 months = $480

That's the only difference.

No, the maximum cancellation fee with Bell is $400. There's a cap, so that then once you reach month 16 of the contract, it starts going down by $20 per month as you reach the end.

The cancellation fee at Telus, Best Buy or not, is $50 plus the remaining unsubsidized portion of your device, which can just as easily add up to, if not exceed, $400 depending on how much of a rebate you received when you purchased it.

It's the same thing as this Tab program that all these discount carriers like Koodo and Wind are now pushing. "Just pay off the device when you're done!" is the exact same thing as paying a cancellation fee. Basically think of that $50 as an administration fee for cancelling, over and above the early termination charges. At Rogers it's $12.50. I fully understand what you're trying to say. I just don't want you to think you're getting a better deal by doing it this way, because it's just a different way of adding up the math.

[http]

So here's my quizzical look - why are people signing contracts for luxury items in the first place? Small wonder the nation is overloaded in debt.

[Sparky]

I just downloaded the Bluebird Cab app.

You can phone them directly from the app and they have a map where the cabs are and an estimator for costs.

[sebberry]

Hmm.. I guess they expect us BlackBerry users to have our own chauffeurs?

Come to think about it, I think it's been about 13 years since I've taken a taxi. No, wait, there was that one time about 8 years ago when I had to have the windshield replaced in the car and took a taxi to work after dropping it off.

[sebberry]

VHF, I don't know if you're a stargazer, but the Stellarium is pretty good on the PlayBook.

I like to buy good quality apps like this as it shows interest in the platform.