BC Transit (Victoria Regional Transit System) news and issues

[VicHockeyFan]

http://www.timescolonist.com/More+bu...673/story.html

Fewer riders will be left behind by packed buses this year, after an extra 5,000 hours of bus service was approved Thursday.

The Victoria Regional Transit Commission dipped into reserve cash to provide the additional buses, while freezing fares and transit taxes.

HandyDart, whose riders often have to wait two weeks for service, will see an extra 2,000 hours on the road.

About $319,000 from reserves will pay for the return of 7,000 hours cut from last year’s budget...

[Mike K.]

HandyDart, whose riders often have to wait two weeks for service...

And UVic kids are complaining?

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

And UVic kids are complaining?

I don't think HandyDart riders "wait" two weeks, they have to book that far out. Thus effectively shutting off the service for anything that comes up, or has to be booked inside that time frame. Like golf tee times, or emergency appendectomies.

[Mike K.]

Yes, I know

[JohnN]

HandyDart: Extra buses can't arrive too soon

HandyDart backlog leaves man with cerebral palsy housebound

Derek Spalding
Times Colonist
March 24, 2012

Cerebral palsy had made it so Sean Stewart can't drive, and now, he says, insufficient funding has made the government-subsidized HandyDart buses he depends on painfully unreliable.

Passengers in Greater Victoria have to book their trips on the door-to-door service two weeks in advance because of a backlog in the system.

The problem with the service - used by people with permanent and temporary disabilities - is recognized by B.C. Transit, which expects to complete a review of the service by fall.

"I rely solely on HandyDart to get around," said Stewart, who volunteers at the Victoria Disability Resource Centre twice a week. He books his trips two weeks in advance and follows up with a confirmation the afternoon before the scheduled trip. Several times in the past two months, there has been no service available, he said.

Without HandyDart, he said, "I don't get out of the house."

Victoria Regional Transit Commission agreed Thursday to provide an additional 2,000 HandyDart hours - for a total of 120,000 hours in 2012-13 - to improve bus availability. Transit predicts this will add 4,500 trips, bringing the total to almost 300,000, and reduce wait times by a third.

Staff at the Victoria Disability Resource Centre regularly see the frustrations of passengers like Stewart, who use HandyDart every time they leave the house.

READ MORE:
http://www2.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/capital_van_isl/story.html?id=e39501af-8e5e-42fe-a213-86c24b5cf272

[LJ]

^Call a cab, family member, friend, neighbour.

If you're relying on BC Transit to run your life, you're in trouble.

I can see that it is convenient to have them at your beck and call but that is not reality.

[VicHockeyFan]

The reality is, that by allowing the service to be backed up to where it's a 2-week wait, they are managing the demand. Let's face it, if they came as quick as a cab came, like within minutes of your call, the demand would be an awful lot higher.

However, if they don't show for an appointment, or have to cancel, there isn't much excuse for that. Be more realistic in scheduling, and use overtime where necessary when you screw up or the schedule, or it goes awry.

[Bob Fugger]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

Let's be realistic here. Buses/LRT will never be as popular as a car because transit has no respect for people's time. Transit doesn't care that you have to walk 10 minutes to the bus stop and then wait around for the bus. They only record commutes bus stop to bus stop. We all know that whatever time is posted for the bus pad it with at least 10 minutes on either end to arrive at the stop and another 10 waiting for the bus -- if it's on time, which along my primary route, the 14, is a gamble every day of the week.

I was thinking about your post, Mike, this morning as I was waiting for the 6 just across Quadra from Floyd's. Specifically, I was wondering how I was waiting 15 minutes for a bus that runs every 10 minutes. I arrived at that particular stop at 10:32 for a 10:35 pickup, plus add at least another minute or two of time that I had Quadra Street in my sights, so I could see the bus fly by - which it did not. So, let's say I was as good as at the stop at 10:30. I was picked up at exactly 10:45 (right on time...for the next bus).

So where the funk was the 10:35 bus? It was at least 5 minutes early - on a 10 minute frequency. Now, I know that buses run ahead or behind depending on traffic, what's going on at stops, etc. But the timing point is at Fort & Douglas: 800m and three stops away. How does a bus run so off-schedule when the timing point is so close? Did it hit every light up Fort, no one waiting at stops, doing 90 km/h?

If this was almost any other Saturday bus, I'd be waiting there for another half hour, STEAMING. This is why ridership will never get to where they need it. The cost of convenience of having an automobile for most people will trump this every time.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Bob Fugger

I was thinking about your post, Mike, this morning as I was waiting for the 6 just across Quadra from Floyd's. Specifically, I was wondering how I was waiting 15 minutes for a bus that runs every 10 minutes. I arrived at that particular stop at 10:32 for a 10:35 pickup, plus add at least another minute or two of time that I had Quadra Street in my sights, so I could see the bus fly by - which it did not. So, let's say I was as good as at the stop at 10:30. I was picked up at exactly 10:45 (right on time...for the next bus).

So where the funk was the 10:35 bus? It was at least 5 minutes early - on a 10 minute frequency. Now, I know that buses run ahead or behind depending on traffic, what's going on at stops, etc. But the timing point is at Fort & Douglas: 800m and three stops away. How does a bus run so off-schedule when the timing point is so close? Did it hit every light up Fort, no one waiting at stops, doing 90 km/h?

If this was almost any other Saturday bus, I'd be waiting there for another half hour, STEAMING. This is why ridership will never get to where they need it. The cost of convenience of having an automobile for most people will trump this every time.

I agree with all this. I had a similar experience last Saturday. I was 5 minutes early for the #6 at Yates and Quadra, heading to Esquimalt at about 5:30pm. It finally arrived 10 minutes late, and get this, I was the victim of a pass-up. The bus wasn't full, but I guess he was so far behind that he motioned that there was a bus following. There was, but it was still about 4 minutes behind. Of course, it was the next bus. So because my bus was running late, and presumably because he had no drop-offs at my spot, he decided I could be a few more minutes late, to my detriment, but to the advantage of someone further up the line as he gets closer to his scheduled time.

It'll make me think twice about bothering to go out there again.

[VicHockeyFan]

Heroes help make the wheels go 'round at B.C. Transit.

That's becoming clear on a new website inviting input from the commuting public. The site, transithero.ca, was created to give people a place to tell their stories and give credit where credit is due for good things that happen on the bus.

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/to...395/story.html

I've got a transit hero story. My transit hero would be the guy who decides to stop wasting money on radio ads and congratulatory websites and spends the money instead on onboard wifi, and on-time buses.

[jklymak]

Originally Posted by Bob Fugger

So where the funk was the 10:35 bus? It was at least 5 minutes early - on a 10 minute frequency. Now, I know that buses run ahead or behind depending on traffic, what's going on at stops, etc. But the timing point is at Fort & Douglas: 800m and three stops away. How does a bus run so off-schedule when the timing point is so close? Did it hit every light up Fort, no one waiting at stops, doing 90 km/h?

Yes, this kind of thing drives me nuts as well. I think the fundamental problem is that the buses do not wait at all downtown, but at their termini at either end of the routes. So, by the time they get downtown, where a lot of their traffic is, they are woefully out of sync with their schedules. If it was me, I'd split all the routes that go through DT (14, 6, 26 etc) in half so the timing could be more precise. Its pretty frustrating waiting for a 14 that is supposed to come every 5 minutes for 20 minutes, and then to have 5 show up in a clump.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

spends the money instead on onboard wifi, and on-time buses.

Do we really need WiFi on the bus? With so many smartphones out there now do people really need to pull out their laptop and use WiFi?

[martini]

Originally Posted by LJ

^Call a cab, family member, friend, neighbour.

If you're relying on BC Transit to run your life, you're in trouble.

I can see that it is convenient to have them at your beck and call but that is not reality.

This is the Handydart service remember? I little insensitive under the circumstances.

[JohnN]

Restored service hours benefit of transit budget health in Greater Victoria

Erin McCracken
Victoria News
March 25, 2012 9:42 PM

Taxpayers in the Capital Region won't be required to cough up extra money to cover B.C. Transit's 2012 budget.

The Victoria Regional Transit Commission approved a zero-per-cent tax increase Thursday thanks to higher transit revenues, gas-tax funding and measures to reduce fare evasion.

READ MORE:
http://www.vicnews.com/news/144174415.html

[ryno8097]

I know, as an operator, it is frustrating when you get passed up at the curb, whether it be by a full bus or a bus running late.
There are a thousand reasons why a bus can be running late. Typically though, it is because there is not enough time to do a run, and no time at the end of the line to recover the lost time. (example: the 3:30 #61 to Sooke from Langford is consistently 20-30 minutes late by the time it returns to Langford because of road construction. That bus has 3 minutes to recover - 3 minutes. Now it is twenty minutes late on its next trip, if it runs at all!)

On the route #6 time is so tight if we get one wheelchair (or someone else requiring the ramp deployed) we are helpless and late for the next entire round trip. Or if the bridge is up, we're also screwed!


As for an increase of 5,000 hours starting next fall, that is two and a half extra full-time drivers, and one extra bus. Do you think that is going to solve our problems?

[davek]

Originally Posted by ryno8097

As for an increase of 5,000 hours starting next fall, that is two and a half extra full-time drivers, and one extra bus. Do you think that is going to solve our problems?

I think what is going to solve our problems is the withdrawal of government from transit. So long as we have to accept a state-protected monopoly, there is no reason to ever expect satisfactory service.

[Coreyburger]

Originally Posted by davek

I think what is going to solve our problems is the withdrawal of government from transit. So long as we have to accept a state-protected monopoly, there is no reason to ever expect satisfactory service.

Sure, right after we withdraw government from road building. Oh wait, we can't. Regardless, network effects means that you need to smaller routes to feed the larger routes. The problem is not government intervention, it is bad government intervention.

[UrbanRail]

Originally Posted by davek

I think what is going to solve our problems is the withdrawal of government from transit. So long as we have to accept a state-protected monopoly, there is no reason to ever expect satisfactory service.

I am afraid that privatizing transit will make it harder for people to afford it, as it will be based on profit.

[Bernard]

There is a difference between private operation and monopoly.

Transit services in BC are all monopoly operations. In the case of the areas served by BC Transit, most of the transit systems are operated by private for profit companies.

1) Is the monopoly a problem? Keep in mind that private inter-city bus service tends to be a regulatory monopoly. There are no end of cases where companies that one the rights to a route do not run buses on it but stop anyone else from running a service. Effectively so are taxi services. For ease of use and consistency of the schedule, I do not see how you could operate transit with a monopoly.

2) Would a private operator provide a better service for the same cost? There has to be a reason why in so many locations private companies provide the transit service.


In an unrelated point, I wonder why all the bus services of school districts and BC Transit are not combined? It seems to me this would be more efficient for both.

[Coreyburger]

Originally Posted by Bernard

In an unrelated point, I wonder why all the bus services of school districts and BC Transit are not combined? It seems to me this would be more efficient for both.

Yes and no. The school bus service has two major components: (A) rush hour delivery of students to/from school, and (B) all-day delivery of students to/from events. The first BC Transit could do fairly easily, as it would just require a few more buses and then a few more drivers. The second is basically charter service, which isn't something BC Transit currently does, and would thus be a headache to schedule.

Note that SD63 (Saanich) owns and operates its own buses likely because it still does A, while SD61 only does B, so it contracts out. Be interesting to see their side-by-side numbers and compare.

[ryno8097]

Originally Posted by Bernard

There is a difference between private operation and monopoly.

Transit services in BC are all monopoly operations. In the case of the areas served by BC Transit, most of the transit systems are operated by private for profit companies.

2) Would a private operator provide a better service for the same cost? There has to be a reason why in so many locations private companies provide the transit service.

The exception being Nanaimo Regional District and Whistler, which are contracted out to the respective municipal governments.

B.C. Transit contracts out the Cowichan Commuter at roughly double the cost of keeping it in house in Victoria. It costs $93 per hour in Victoria to run a bus, which is $27 per hour less than the average North American system. Cowichan is contracted out to a private company for almost double that and they pay their employees less in wages!

Public transportation should be operated by a level of government. The question is which level???

[Mike K.]

I agree. I don't want a private enterprise operating our local transit system.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

I agree. I don't want a private enterprise operating our local transit system.

Why not, comrade?

They don't need to do it on a case where they get more money by what they collect in the fare box. But they could run it on a system where they make bonuses for "on-time-ness" etc.

Why not take one route, say the #6, and see what companies bid? So they will be responsible for driver salaries and benefits, supplying appropriate buses as specified in the contract, then the rest of the costs savings the independent operator find, he's free to find (like cheaper labour for drivers and bus maintenance, cheaper buses, cheaper fuel etc.)

[UrbanRail]

Hmmm,

drivers and maintenance people getting 8/hr?

Driving a bus or maintaining the fleet are important skilled trades and shouldnt just be contracted out to cheap labour. Remember many of these workers support families. I believe the average driver gets between 18 and 24 an hour, which isnt a whole lot.

If cost cutting is what you are implying, I would look to management. =)

[Coreyburger]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

Why not, comrade?

They don't need to do it on a case where they get more money by what they collect in the fare box. But they could run it on a system where they make bonuses for "on-time-ness" etc.

Why not take one route, say the #6, and see what companies bid? So they will be responsible for driver salaries and benefits, supplying appropriate buses as specified in the contract, then the rest of the costs savings the independent operator find, he's free to find (like cheaper labour for drivers and bus maintenance, cheaper buses, cheaper fuel etc.)

That isn't how BC Transit contracts out. BC Transit buys all the buses, requires contractors to buy fuel from them (as BC Transit gets good bulk rates). Contractors operate the buses (on routes chosen by BC Transit and the local government/regional government/transit commission) and maintain the buses (to BC Transit standards). Also, given there is already a union, you would need to keep the unionized drivers.

Also, why would you contract out the routes that make money? Then you lose the money from that route, requiring increased subsidy to the rest. That is insane. Good transportation systems like France's SNCF subsidize their regional routes with their TGV, because it makes good financial and social policy.