[Old Johnson Street Bridge] General discussion

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by dirtydeeds

I would think that even if these workers did not live in Victoria they would still spend a signifigant amount of there paychecks in Victoria buisnesses?

Sure, but is spending an extra $5M or $15M to keep the jobs here justified in the "chance" they'll spend it in Victoria businesses? How about we just tax those Victoria businesses and residents LESS (by buying from the least expensive qualified supplier), then we know the money stays here, because we don't spend it in the first place.

This is money we just voted to tax ourselves to pony up, it's not money coming from elsewhere.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rob Randall

It would look great but it would be a fake heritage bridge and I wouldn't like it any more than I like fake heritage buildings. I don't even know if today's steelworkers know how to rivet. On the minus side, the bridge would have outdated century-old engineering, on the plus side, even if it is less efficient, it is proven technology.

You can build towers such as Seattle's space needle and Toronto's CN using modern technology, but the French will spend billions to keep the Eiffell Tower functioning and continuing to look like the rivetted beauty it is.

[Rob Randall]

Before City Council spends your tax dollars on major capital projects, an independent business watchdog should weigh up the financial pros and cons first. And despite council's final decision, the business report should be made public.

Who's opinion is this? Believe it or not, it's Glen Clark.

[Bob Fugger]

Originally Posted by Rob Randall

Who's opinion is this? Believe it or not, it's Glen Clark.

It's almost funny how ex-NDP ministers/premiers become hardcore capitalists out of office. Add M-m-m-moe Sihota and Elizabeth Cull to that list.

[Coreyburger]

Originally Posted by Bob Fugger

It's almost funny how ex-NDP ministers/premiers become hardcore capitalists out of office. Add M-m-m-moe Sihota and Elizabeth Cull to that list.

The same holds true for the other side as well. See my blog post about Preston Manning at Gaining Ground for an example of that:
http://www.coreyburger.ca/2010/10/pr...ty-conference/

[Holden West]

A heritage bridge is targeted for replacement, a new bridge would better serve the public with lower overall cost, wider lanes, cycling lanes et cetera. However, heritage buffs would prefer a rehab option and say the present narrow lanes actually calm traffic.

Yes, it's happening in Saskatchewan, too.

"The bridge not only has a significant story to tell of the inception of the city, but embedded in it is a story of the construction techniques, building materials, the scale of the city and the optimism of Saskatoon at that time," said Mark Bobyn, Nutana Community Association president.

"It captures the very formation of our city."


Read more: http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/B...#ixzz17Jqt1aME

[G-Man]

That is a big bridge. So are draw bridges always like 60 percent more expensive? I can understand a them being at a premium but our price seems excessive in comparison to this.

[jklymak]

^ One of the problems with the numbers the whole time is that they have been including all the "improvements" to the approaches, which can't be cheap.

[Bingo]

The bridges over Victoria's Upper Harbour will play a more important role once the new $35 million Emergency Response Centre is constructed at CFB Esquimalt. During the bridge debate it seemed that the focus was on Vic West being able to access emergency services from the east sides of the bridges, but once this new facility is built it could be the other way around. In case of a major earthquake the docks in Esquimalt may be the lifeline for emergency sevices coming into the area for all of Victoria..

I wonder if it has been shortsighted to narrow Esquimalt and Craigflower Roads, and to not have a plan to upgrade the Bay Street Bridge to the same lifeline status that the new Johnson Street Bridge is promised to have? One would also hope that the Victoria Police Radio (Crest?) system will be working at 100% in such an emergency.

During this stalled economy, and an increasing tax burden, I hope the city hasn't burned the wrong bridge, and has enough eggs left for the other baskets in the coming years.

for more on CFB Esquimalt infrastructure projects:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/pri/4/bases/esquimalt-eng.asp

[Bernard]

I went downtown today and the bridge is still standing, I was certain we would see John Luton and the Mayor taking it down already! :-)

[Coreyburger]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I wonder if it has been shortsighted to narrow Esquimalt and Craigflower Roads, and to not have a plan to upgrade the Bay Street Bridge to the same lifeline status that the new Johnson Street Bridge is promised to have? One would also hope that the Victoria Police Radio (Crest?) system will be working at 100% in such an emergency.

There is still exactly the same roadway width as there was before (save a few islands), so in an emergency you can get the same number of vehicles through. And for the 99.99% of the time it is not an emergency, we get a slower, calmer, easier-to-use road for everybody: cars, cyclists, pedestrians.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Coreyburger

And for the 99.99% of the time it is not an emergency, we get a slower, calmer, easier-to-use road for everybody: cars, cyclists, pedestrians.

That logic wasn't accepted by the city when it was suggested having two lanes on the bridge, and keeping the "S" curve to get a calmer road. By not upgrading the seismic on the Bay Street Bridge, access to the Emergency Response Centre in Esquimalt could be limited during other the .01% of the time that we do have a major emergency.

[Bernard]

Originally Posted by Coreyburger

There is still exactly the same roadway width as there was before (save a few islands), so in an emergency you can get the same number of vehicles through. And for the 99.99% of the time it is not an emergency, we get a slower, calmer, easier-to-use road for everybody: cars, cyclists, pedestrians.

There are fewer lanes on Esquimalt road, it used to be two lanes both directions from the underpass to almost right to the base gate. There are still some areas of two lanes, but not many any longer and the speed on the street has slowed down and the volume of traffic is down on it but up on other streets

[Bingo]

I don't live in the city and therefore wasn't able to vote no on borrowing money for a new bridge. So I find it bit bit distasteful when the city now comes looking for money from the municipalities to help fund the new bridge, when it didn't give them any say in which which bridge they might prefer to spend the money on.

See - City seeks help on rail costs.
http://www.timescolonist.com/busines...862/story.html

[Mike K.]

As we progress from discussing the old Johnson Street Bridge to the new replacement bridge, a dedicated thread merging the general, technical and design discussion has been created at [Johnson Street Bridge REPLACEMENT] General, technical and design discussion

The funding discussion will remain as a thread for the funding of the project throughout construction.

[Annie]

Okay - they really did it. Nice timing for the "Tourist Season" !!! If the part of the bridge serves no purpose other than sticking up in the air - get rid of it. You are going to do this eventually anyway - get rid of this "Eyesore" sticking up in the air !!! The inconvenience to people is also going to be biting you in the butt !!! The city of Victoria has already been partially destroyed by rebuilding so many things. I would have thought that a "New Bridge" would have opened in the middle - somewhat like a gateway to "Victoria". Yes I was told there was a problem getting "Power" to the other side of the bridge - that can be done - not impossible, and would help in so many ways. Vibrant Glossy paint sure makes a difference too !!! Someone sure needs to think about what this is going to look like coming into the Inner Harbour or from any angle that it can be seen. If need be - run a little ferry for bicycles and pedestrians to get across when access is no longer available. Let people get to work, or people can work out of their homes or somewhere else until you get this mess sorted out. Ever since the "Eaton Centre" was torn down and rebuilt - none of this nonsense has stopped. It has been going on for over 20 or 25 years now (at least). Please, can someone "Clue in" to what they are doing to this city, and the people that are affected "?". The "New Bridge" that I have seen in pictures does not fit in with this city if you want to keep any part of the original look and any heritage of Victoria. We need a eye pleasing and functional "Gateway" into Victoria - not another modern "eyesore" that looks out of place. I have a friend that builds bridges on the East Coast - he would walk away from this one. You can have it if that's what you want Victoria to reflect to the people that come to this city, and for the people that live in Victoria and surrounding areas. Also a very sad loss of the E & N Railway ... You're sure blowing it with this one (as usual) !!! P.S. Has anyone noticed the combination of bridges that join Washington State to Astoria Oregon ?? Now that's a bridge !!!! Many other designs that would be beautiful and functional for Victoria. Grab a brain people "?" ...

[gumgum]

There's nothing wrong with esthetics of the new bridge. In fact, I think it's beautiful. We should embrace architecture and design of yesterday and today. Should not move forward in that respect?

How the new bridge came to fruition is what I don't like...

[MarkCB]

So the rail span is going to be raised like that until the bridge is taken away? I hope so. It looks really cool.

[Bingo]

All we need now is a fly through video to show how the new cycling paths over the bridge will work.

[sebberry]

Police will be positioned at the Johnson Street Bridge Monday to direct a crush of commuter car and bike traffic that will share three narrow lanes following the weekend closure of the attached rail bridge, Victoria Mayor Dean Fortin said Saturday.

Read more: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/co...#ixzz1JC3isr3r

Honestly.. how hard can it be? Is the JSB the only road in town that drivers encounter cyclists on?

[jklymak]

^ Cyclists have to take a lane on the JSB. Which really should be fine, but a) some cyclists are afraid to, and b) some car drivers are so impatient, they can't slow down for 5 seconds it takes to go over the bridge. The alternative is the cyclists hugs the right, and the cars try to push by, and that is really dangerous.

[Holden West]

I believe the time it takes for a car to cross the deck of the bridge is around three and a half seconds. I doubt even a slow bike would take much more than ten seconds. It's amazing what will infuriate a driver.

"Sorry I'm six seconds late for work, boss. I got stuck behind some idiot cyclist!"

[Bingo]

I walked over the bridge around 8:00 am, and traffic was flowing smoothly with cyclists actually waiting near the S curve until they had a group together before heading east across the bridge.

One vehicle lane and one cycling lane each way seems to work. I saw no cyclists using the pedestrian path on the south side of the bridge.

No honking and no fingers, but it's only day one with three years to go.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I walked over the bridge around 8:00 am, and traffic was flowing smoothly with cyclists actually waiting near the S curve until they had a group together before heading east across the bridge.

One vehicle lane and one cycling lane each way seems to work. I saw no cyclists using the pedestrian path on the south side of the bridge.

No honking and no fingers, but it's only day one with three years to go.

Yes, left to their won devices, it's amazing how much human-kind can figure out on their own. But these days, government figures it need police, city officials and bike volunteers to manage the whole thing.