Victoria Rapid Transit Project - CRD/BC Transit - Light Rail (LRT) has been recommended

[VicHockeyFan]

^ I've learned from that video that:

A) 72% of men had mustaches in 1982
B) 88% of construction workers had mustaches in 1982
C) Someone filmed me crossing a Vancouver bridge in my 1978 Camaro, in 1982

[Baro]

Originally Posted by Holden West

Some funny moments in this brief clip from the 80s:

That's an important thing to keep in mind as we mull a billion dollar mass transit system of our own. Not only the highly visible rolling stock but the millions of dollars of unseen computer equipment and electronics will need to be replaced on a constant basis.

Skytrain runs on 3.5" disks actually (not joking)

[Coreyburger]

Originally Posted by Baro

Skytrain runs on 3.5" disks actually (not joking)

Not only that, the microprocessors/SoC of these cars can never been rewritten, only written into empty space, so any new programming needs to fit into that empty space. Given each car will receive multiple updates in its lifetime...

However, old technology works. Why spend a lot of money replacing what already works? This is the great advantage of a rail-based system, whose cars will last easily 30 years, as opposed to the 12-year bus replacement cycle BC Transit has now changed to (avoiding a mid-life rebuild)

[G-Man]

^ Awesome. Love the guy smoking on the job at the 32 second mark.

[geekthegreek]

Man, BC was pretty white back then! Or maybe that's what they wanted to show in a marketing video. I also like the close-ups of the jazz/fusion band, when the soundtrack is obviously a synth. Good fun.

[J Douglas]

If the writer here is dismayed at Toronto's inability to come to a rational agreement on transit, he should read V.V.



"Lausanne only has a population of 130,000 with another 200,000 in the suburbs. It is amazing that a little Swiss city can organize and build a subway..."


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle2376420/

[VicHockeyFan]

I've been saying for some time that we are foolish to think that Victoria is going to continue to expand at any pace at all really, and that LRT is a waste of time for a static or dwindling population, then I came across these stats:

Until the early 1990s, natural increase was almost always the main engine of Canada’s total population growth. However, in the mid-1990s, a reversal occurred: the migratory component became the main engine of Canadian growth, particularly because of low fertility and the aging of the population.

Around 2030, deaths are expected to start outnumbering births. From that point forward, immigration would be the only growth factor for the Canadian population.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/91-003-...129907-eng.htm

And given that Victoria is not exactly the city of choice for incoming immigrants:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...nada/partg.asp

Only 2% of immigrants since 1996 went to ALL of Victoria, Saskatoon, Regina, Québec, and Halifax grouped together, as opposed to 43% going to Toronto...

So on what basis do we think we will have a population to support LRT after 2030?

I mean if all the money landed in our laps today, we aren't going to have it built by 2022, right?

[JohnN]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

I've been saying for some time that we are foolish to think that Victoria is going to continue to expand at any pace at all really, and that LRT is a waste of time for a static or dwindling population...So on what basis do we think we will have a population to support LRT after 2030?

Agreed that LRT a bad idea, but also because whatever demography Victoria does have in 2030 may not be a big market for LRT. Even if Victoria continues to be a mecca for retireds migrants (not immigrants), they will have primary transit needs that are not about LRT but more about bus/HandyDart transit network. If every dollar sunk into a Douglas Street LRT takes a dollar out of the bus transit network, that will prejudice the mobility of this demographic, as well as other non-commuters (ie, non-working poor, mothers, etc)

[G-Man]

I have been saying for years that we need to work to encourage more immigrants to Victoria.

[Mike K.]

Originally Posted by G-Man

I have been saying for years that we need to work to encourage more immigrants to Victoria.

It won't happen in our lifetimes. Immigrants need support networks that we just don't have and even if we started building them today it would take generations for them to become established.

There are some ethnic populations here that can benefit certain newcomers, but they are relatively small and job prospects are limited. Add in the very high cost of living and we get a scenario where only wealthy immigrants or immigrants with immediate family can afford to move and thrive here.

[Baro]

Immigrant communities historically settle where there is a cheap cost of living and ample jobs. Victoria sadly has neither

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Baro

Immigrant communities historically settle where there is a cheap cost of living and ample jobs. Victoria sadly has neither

And understandably so. Until their English skills improve, just imagine how limited the job prospects are here.

[Hotel Mike]

And the thing people seem to forget about the LRT plans, is that it's not going to benefit the people who live in Victoria a bit. It may help bring some business into downtown, but for actual Victorians it's a bust. Who would take it, and to where? And we will pay a big chunk of the tax burden that will be created.

[Baro]

yeah I rather see a tram in the core for the benefits of Victoria rather than tossing langford more rewards for their sprawl.

[Bernard]

A tram, which in many ways this LRT proposal is very similar to, suffers from not being grade separated. Rail based transit solutions work best when they are fully separated from other traffic. When on the surface buses can move more people at a lower cost to more destinations and faster than non-grade separated rail.

[JohnN]

Isn't 2013 rather unrealistic as starting date for Salish Express train?

Eight mayors on board for Salish Express train

Service would roll in 2013, linking Victoria, Langford and Cowichan

Bill Cleverley
Times Colonist
July 11, 2012

Eight local mayors want the Capital Regional District to pony up for a plan to help get a commuter train running on the E&N rail line. Having a train linking Langford and Victoria is very important, said Langford Mayor Stew Young. "It works very, very well for Langford. I just don't see spending a whole lot more money on the highway right now."

READ MORE:
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Eight+mayors+board+Salish+Express+train/6916020/story.html

[Nparker]

Originally Posted by JohnN

Isn't 2013 rather unrealistic as starting date for Salish Express train? Eight mayors on board for Salish Express train

I note Victoria's mayor is conspicuously absent from this list.

[Baro]

This physically hurts me to type, as a huge rail enthusiast, but what about ripping up the E&N and replacing it with some sort of busway? An express bus between west coms and downtown that just runs normal buses.

Speaking of pain:
"The reason Fortin and his team rejected rail on the Johnson Street Bridge has nothing to do with cost. Fortin and his team want to convert the industrial area on the Vic West side of the bridge into condo developments. And they don't want a rail line to interrupt those plans. They are not thinking about the future of transportation in Victoria and the island as a bigger picture. They are thinking of ways to make us look more like Vancouver (line the beaches with condoes and high rises)."

Uhhggggg who keeps trotting this out? Yeah when I think about the Fortin government I think about a city hell-bent on building high-rises. What are these people on?

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Nparker

I note Victoria's mayor is conspicuously absent from this list.

I think we know the Mayor is going along with the BCT plans for a Douglas bus-way / eventual LRT. What will be interesting, is if somehow they get this E&N commuter run up, how BCT interacts with it at Vic West or other points, since BCT isn't really into it.

[G-Man]

We should have hada busway for a couple years now. The train line just makes too much sense for people to actually go for.

[Mike K.]

Have we seen this before?: Victoria Transport Policy Institute

The Victoria Transport Policy Institute is an independent research organization dedicated to developing innovative and practical solutions to transportation problems. We provide a variety of resources available free at this website to help improve transportation planning and policy analysis. We are funded primarily through consulting and project grants. Our research is among the most current available and has been widely applied. It can help you:

- Identify better solutions to transportation problems, including some approaches that are frequently overlooked or misunderstood.
- Identify the full benefits, costs and equity impacts of alternative transportation policies and programs.
- Compare and evaluate alternatives.
- Create a bridge between theory and practice.

[JohnN]

Gene Miller's take on Tod Litman and Litman's Victoria Transport Policy Institute, from Focus magazine, July 2011:

If you were looking for a knowledgeable, Smart Growth-oriented transportation expert, and a champion of diverse mobility options to serve the community’s needs and provide travel choices, you would have to go no further that Victoria’s Todd Litman, founder and executive director of the Victoria Transport Policy Institute, a research organization and think tank dedicated to the analytical study of transportation and mobility policy choices and impacts.

READ MORE:
http://focusonline.ca/?q=node/248

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Mike K.

Have we seen this before?: Victoria Transport Policy Institute

Ya, the institute is just one guy, that makes a living by consulting with various authorities. He happens to live here, but does not usually work for anyone here.

[Mike K.]

Ah, thanks for that.

[sdwright.vic]

So, what does anyone think about the concept that we will need to build something within the next.20 years as a mass transit option. Things do not get less expensive to build over time, only more. So do we build something now that may only get moderate ridership now, and have it built expandable to larger ridership (by buying more cars and increasing frequency), or do we just wait till we have Vancouver style gridlock?

If we build now, its a billion dollars to plan ahead and save money, or wait to build and have the price be 2 to 3 times what it is now and the futures problem alone?