Wal-mart: good, bad or ugly?

[VicHockeyFan]

Right on! Saanich's "downtown" already has 24-hour shopping!

http://www.walmart.ca/wps-portal/storel ... oreDetails

OPEN 24 Hours
Starts: December 18, 2006 7:00 AM
Ends: December 24, 2006 6:00 PM

[rayne_k]

Yay?

I think they should pick a couple of nights, the week before Christmas and get ton of shops (in downtown) to stay open.. .. I heard about somewhere that they do this.. and it sounded really cool, like 24 hour shopping festival. It could go in time with the solstices. How much fun would that be?!

edit.. ok, I typed too quickly. I didn't mean places like NYC or the megacities that already have a number of services open at all hours, but rather a few times a year - I doubt we have the population to sustain a huge range of permanent 24 hour services.

[Holden West]

We definitely should never do a prank like [url=http://www.zug.com/pranks/walmart/:14379]this[/url:14379]. It would be wrong. We should not meet up tomorrow at 4:00 a.m. at the Oak St. McDonald's to plan and execute a prank like that.

[rayne_k]

:smt046 Funny to read, but requires too much energy.

[gumgum]

No to mention someone has to start working there.

No thanks.

[Holden West]

Pre-empting Wal Mart?

----

VICTORIA, Aug. 31 /CNW/ - Getting ready to go 'Back to Dorm' next week?
In an effort to help university and college students returning to school next
week, the Zellers, Hillside Centre store in Victoria is one of 31 across
Canada that will remain open 24 hours a day starting at 8:00 AM Friday,
August 31 until Sunday, September 2, at 11:59 PM.

[osmich]

Walmart needs to close 24 hours a day!

[Holden West]

Comparison of total store acreage.

[gumgum]

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by osmich

Walmart needs to close 24 hours a day!

Why do you think that?

[Holden West]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Why do you think that?

Briefly, many believe that Wal Mart (and IKEA etc.) have forced costs down through the supply chain in order to get the lowest price possible regardless of quality or ethical/legal concern, giving us merely the illusion of good value.

For example, was that IKEA bookshelf (that sags in the middle) made with illegally harvested wood from the China/Russia border? Who cares? Was that Wal Mart shrimp cocktail ring made from unsustainable Thai fish farms that used so much fake food and antibiotics the water is poisoned and the fishermen are out of work? Who cares? Will that cheap appliance be thrown in the landfill after a year because it stopped working? Who cares?

Critics say the lure of unreasonably low prices has driven out actual "good value" retailers and manufacturers, leaving two options for consumers: cheap, useless crap and high-end luxury. Try buying a stereo or coffee maker and see what I mean.

[martini]

^Thank you

[sebberry]

I think big-box stores in general are responsible for the downturn in quality. Wal-Mart may be socially irresponsible but they're only partly to blame for running the little guys out of business.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Holden West

Briefly, many believe that Wal Mart (and IKEA etc.) have forced costs down through the supply chain in order to get the lowest price possible regardless of quality or ethical/legal concern, giving us merely the illusion of good value.

For example, was that IKEA bookshelf (that sags in the middle) made with illegally harvested wood from the China/Russia border? Who cares? Was that Wal Mart shrimp cocktail ring made from unsustainable Thai fish farms that used so much fake food and antibiotics the water is poisoned and the fishermen are out of work? Who cares? Will that cheap appliance be thrown in the landfill after a year because it stopped working? Who cares?

Critics say the lure of unreasonably low prices has driven out actual "good value" retailers and manufacturers, leaving two options for consumers: cheap, useless crap and high-end luxury. Try buying a stereo or coffee maker and see what I mean.

Other stores/manufacturers etc. ought to get better at explaining why their higher-cost item is a better value. All people understand price, very few know how the parts of a stereo or coffee maker work.

[Newlywednotnearlydead]

I have a living room full of IKEA furniture, so I'm getting a kick out of this thread. My IKEA bookshelves are quite sturdy, actually.

Singling out Walmart is stupid, considering it's basically the same as the Real Canadian Superstore, Zellers, etc. These stores are just responding to the marketplace, people obviously want low prices and they aren't doing anything illegal by cutting costs.

In terms of driving out "good-value" retailers, can you name one? The only casualty of Wal-Mart that I can think of is K-Mart Canada, which was exactly like Wal-Mart, except crappier. If your small business is selling general merchandise, you're going to get crushed by the competition, but how is that any different from neighbourhood grocers getting crushed by supermarkets in the 40s and 50s?

In fact, by cutting prices for everyday staple items, consumers actually have more money to spend at specialty retailers.

In terms of wages and benefits, the labor market is competitive and Wal-Mart can't pay much less than their competitors if they want to hire and retain employees. The retail industry has low wages in general, I find it hard to believe that Wal-Mart workers get a significantly worse deal than their counterparts at Zellers or other competitors.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Newlywednotnearlydead

In fact, by cutting prices for everyday staple items, consumers actually have more money to spend at specialty retailers.

Actually they come into my store expecting big box prices but with high-quality local service and support

[Newlywednotnearlydead]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Actually they come into my store expecting big box prices but with high-quality local service and support

Well, undoubtedly there are some assclowns out there, but I would hope that most people understand the tradeoff between a more specialized store and a big-box retailer. I have no problem buying, for example, cheap electronics on sale at Future Shop, but you have to do your due dilligence and know what you want because I'm lied to by a salesperson pretty much every time I'm in there. On the other hand, when I go to a local electronics store for computer parts, the people there are friendly, knowledgable and willing to sell me cheap OEM parts, instead of trying to sell me a Monster Cable.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Newlywednotnearlydead

Well, undoubtedly there are some assclowns out there, but I would hope that most people understand the tradeoff between a more specialized store and a big-box retailer. I have no problem buying, for example, cheap electronics on sale at Future Shop, but you have to do your due dilligence and know what you want because I'm lied to by a salesperson pretty much every time I'm in there. On the other hand, when I go to a local electronics store for computer parts, the people there are friendly, knowledgable and willing to sell me cheap OEM parts, instead of trying to sell me a Monster Cable.

You'd be surprised how many people I get who will go to Future Shop because a computer part is $10 cheaper. Sometimes I'd rather sell the monster cable. This sort of ties in with the "Are Victorians cheap" thread, many of my customers want the cheapest computer possible, and even then that's not cheap enough.

It's easier to compete when they want something higher end because price becomes less of an issue, but most people want the cheapest we can build.

I'd like to think that we offer other benifits with our product to help offset the price, but because of big box retail customers have this idea that the Future Shop price is the going rate, no matter where they shop. Sadly we have much less power to negotiate prices with our suppliers and from the customer's point of view it looks like we are ripping people off.

I'm about this far *holds thumb and index finger really close* to posting our cost prices with our retail prices so customers can have a little more insight into our pricing.

[Pyroteknik]

Originally Posted by Holden West

Briefly, many believe that Wal Mart (and IKEA etc.) have forced costs down through the supply chain in order to get the lowest price possible regardless of quality or ethical/legal concern, giving us merely the illusion of good value.

For example, was that IKEA bookshelf (that sags in the middle) made with illegally harvested wood from the China/Russia border? Who cares? Was that Wal Mart shrimp cocktail ring made from unsustainable Thai fish farms that used so much fake food and antibiotics the water is poisoned and the fishermen are out of work? Who cares? Will that cheap appliance be thrown in the landfill after a year because it stopped working? Who cares?

Critics say the lure of unreasonably low prices has driven out actual "good value" retailers and manufacturers, leaving two options for consumers: cheap, useless crap and high-end luxury. Try buying a stereo or coffee maker and see what I mean.

Exactly 100% Agreed. Stay away from Walmart!

[AnonAnnie2]

To all those who provide excellent customer support and service, are knowledgeable about your quality products, and generally go above and beyond....have no fear, the WalMart customer is NOT your customer.
Your customer never darkens the doorstep of a WalMart.
Leave the WalMart customers to...WalMart - you don't want them.

[davek]

Intelligent commentary on Wal-mart here and here. From the first link;

A good rule of thumb to follow these days is that any book or article that blames Wal-Mart for some real or imagined evil should not be taken seriously. The meme "Wal-Mart is a destructive sorcerer spreading poverty and hardship throughout the world" is now so ingrained in the minds of so many Very Smart And Well-Read People that accusations against Wal-Mart are met with too little skepticism and scrutiny. It’s now a ritual to blame Wal-Mart — and following this ritual, while it might sell books and make the heads of Very Smart And Well-Read People nod, too often signals mental laziness or analytical weakness or both.

[Holden West]

^That's a rather simplistic way of thinking about it. The problem is far more complex. Clearly we are in a quality crisis when it comes to the things we buy. How did we get here? Why are new appliances dumped at the landfill/recycler after a few years while old appliances get passed down to grandchildren and appreciate in value and are restored and resold because they're better than new? Wal-Mart and other box stores play a big role. Wal-Mart is singled out because they likely played the earliest and most aggressive role in convincing us that price is the sole criteria when buying stuff. If a retailer can stuff some cheap plastic resembling a coffee maker, that when assembled, makes a truly crap pot of coffee and it sells for $14.98--less than any other competitor--then you have a hot selling item.

All the old reliable brands of the past--Sunbeam, Remington, GE, Bell & Howell have been sold, merged or used under license so that they are barely a shadow of their former rock-solid reputation.

And yes, I have a lot of IKEA stuff too, and it's perfectly fine. The worst stuff is found in the full page spreads in the catalogs: $50 for a table and chairs? $10 for a bookcase? Too good to pass up, right? This is the loss-leader buyer-beware stuff that's shoddier than IKEA's regular furniture.

So I don't solely blame Wal-Mart but they're at the front of the parade.

[davek]

Originally Posted by Holden West

The problem is far more complex. Clearly we are in a quality crisis when it comes to the things we buy... So I don't solely blame Wal-Mart but they're at the front of the parade.

The ability of consumers to purchase an increasing assortment of goods at increasingly low prices is not a problem, and the availability of appliances that range in caliber from cheap to heirloom quality is not a crisis.

As your links show, inexpensive, low-quality goods don't drive out expensive, high-quality goods. They simply mean poor people can have more of the things they want to lead the lives they want to live.

If someone wants to hate on Wal-Mart, they should do it for their willingness to exploit eminent domain legislation, rather than their merchandise.

[gumgum]

Come on Davek. I know you know better than this.

There's a clear difference between investing in a product and tossing your money out the window. Sadly most don't know the difference. Companies like Walmart have this sort of exploitation down to a science.
Fool your customers with shiny stainless steel fronts and polished steel knobs then you're bound to convince a percentage into thinking it must be step up and an investment.

Are you saying that this doesn't matter? That companies absolve all responsibility and are allowed full access to the exploitation of its costumer?

[jklymak]

^ Theater managers and ballet companies have been exploiting costumers for hundreds of years!