[Langford] Hulls Field

[History Buff]

Hulls Field used to be a Wetland then a potato Field then reverted Back to a Wetland and Now it is a parking lot with an access road to Westhills. what is West Hills you ask?
Well West Hills is an area of previously forested Hills that have been blown up and all of the vegetation stripped away then houses are built on top of the rubble and fill.
The new neighborhood is what Langford Calls High Density. High Density at West Hills means you can sit on the throne in the morning.. look out your window and read your neighbors paper while he/she sits at their breakfast nook eating pro-biotic yogurt.

west Hills is what the developers and Langford calls a GREEN development. Silly me I though that it meant there were trees and bushes and things like that there. No..No ..no it means that they use environmentally friendly fuel in the excavators and drillers.

How do you cut your lawn at West Hills?

Here is how.

1 Roll your lawn mower out of your garage onto your lawn.
2 Start Your lawn mower and let it run for 2 seconds.
3 Turn your lawn mower off.
4 Roll it back into your garage.
5 You are done

Like Shell Busey says.... It Just That Easy


I am sure glad that I grew up in Langford when I did. Hiking in the forest when there was one. Building fort in teh yard. Playing street hockey on roads that were wide enough for 2 different games side by side.
Bumper skiing behind transit buses when it snowed.


Ok Here are your pictures.
Use Mt Wells (left) and Mt MacDonald (right) in the background as your reference points



1951

2010

[Phil McAvity]

Where an empty field existed before there are now numerous businesses, a bowling alley, sports fields, an internet cafe, a skating rink, a kids indoor playground and countless houses which have created dozens, if not hundreds of jobs and places for people to live. Awful isn't it? We should ignore all that though and ensure that people like you get to desperately hang on to all your warm and fuzzy nostalgia though by keeping things like Hull's field.

And you don't like West Hills because the houses have very small lots? And you want to use the environmental angle? Yes, houses with big lots that use up far more land and take much longer to mow the lawns are so much better for the environment. I doubt your position could be more ironic. I gotta give you points for that old picture though, you would be hard pressed to find a better image of pastoral serenity.

Someone here is in dire need of a reality check.

[Bingo]

Thank-you History Buff for all your before and after images. The investigation of trying to find the location where the photo was taken, and then trying to replicate it as it is today can be a bit of fun.

[History Buff]

Sorry about that Phil didnt realize you lived there and wasnt putting down your choice of neighborhood.
Just pointing out that Langford claims to have green space but Im not sure where it is or what that means to them.
I feel that that are ways developing areas that are attractive.
Have a drive down Goldstream Ave past Langford Lake and have a look at West Hills from that side. It is anything but attractive. It is a blight on the Landscape. All the houses look the same and the colours are again all similar.
There is no Character at all to the subdivision. It is (in my ipinion of course) It is warehousing system for families and people today who cant afford anything else.
It looks like an apartment building (view tower's comes to mind... all one colour and a uniform shape) laying on its side.

[maniac78]

You could have said the same thing about any suburban neighbourhood in this town when it was first built. Gordon Head, Broadmead, Sunnymead etc etc. Not much has changed other than the use of better materials.

[History Buff]

I disagree. This morning I drove up Skirt Mountain and there are all kinds of green space areas on the way up and up near the top at the Bear Mountain developments
There are trees of many species there are natural rock bluff with mos and fern
There are nice sight lines
Broadmead also has many original trees and natural areas
West hills has been blasted and all natural areas are gone and or altered to an unrecognisable state
There is nothing unique or stately about Westhills and can be compared to planting a corn field.......level it of put in some drainage and Plant in evenly sPaced row with an equal distance between each one

[maniac78]

Originally Posted by History Buff

I disagree. This morning I drove up Skirt Mountain and there are all kinds of green space areas on the way up and up near the top at the Bear Mountain developments
There are trees of many species there are natural rock bluff with mos and fern
There are nice sight lines
Broadmead also has many original trees and natural areas
West hills has been blasted and all natural areas are gone and or altered to an unrecognisable state
There is nothing unique or stately about Westhills and can be compared to planting a corn field.......level it of put in some drainage and Plant in evenly sPaced row with an equal distance between each one

Oh I see you think that new subdivisions are just grown much like grass. You just put seeds in the forest and out come subdivisions. Ok makes sense.

[dasmo]

In support of history's comments. The tendency for developers to do a total denuding of the landscape to create a development is rather irritating. There is a lot of value to a mature natural landscape so I don't see why there isn't more site design incorporating these natural features, especially in the west shore. It would be worth the added expense since it would add to the value of the properties. You could have no lawns at all but rather a clever, all native, established landscape surrounding and interweaving the development. The West Shore counsels should give incentives to do this....

[Sparky]

^ I agree dasmo. Perhaps there is a happy medium somewhere in the planning. Squeezing every last inch out of the land is surely not in anyone's best interest. I always ask myself "where will the children play?"

[Mike K.]

In terms of Hull's Field, though, were there any/many trees that were actually cut down? If the land was a field prior to development it's not difficult to see why development that has taken place simply paved over the land. I don't think there was a lot of vegetation that could have been preserved, was there?

[LJ]

^No, there was nothing in Hulls field, just an unused, weedy, unsightly area.

In westhills itself there were indeed trees and vegetation but if you had preserved them and made larger lots you would not have affordability. I think perhaps they could have started with bigger lots and mature vegetation on the perimeter of the development to improve the look of the development from the outside, and then go to smaller lots and townhomes/apartments in the interior.

[History Buff]

Hulls field was a natural wetland. Langford lake drained through it. When the E&N railway was put in the flow into Hulls field was partially blocked because of the rail bed. that was part of the reason the ditch was dug on the north end of Langford lake.
Because the railway acted like a dam Langford Lake started to get too high in the wet season and was starting to creep up on the cottages around the Lake. After the ditch was in place things were stable.
Hulls field still had water and remained a wetland. It supported riaparian plants and a habitat species of plants and animals that thrived in it. During dry season parts of hulls field were used for farming. Potatoes were grown. this was when the water levels were down.

This are could have been preserved as a wetland and could have been used in a similar fashion to the Somenos Marsh in Duncan. They could have had perimeter trails and boardwalks etc. Langford has no single large park . Langford has a hodge podge mixture of small playgrounds, man-made ponds, and some gravelled trails that get you through neighborhoods without having to walk on roads.

I mention Westhills because it borders Hulls field or what was hulls field. Sure there are a few benefits to building some warehouses and soccer pitches because it employees a few people but I feel that Langford is only concerned about its bottom line and spend too much time thinking about how to fatten up its tax base with no thought to green space.


Hulls Field also supported a large variety of wildlife.

If you want to read more I have a copy of a document written in 2000 before the marsh was filled in and can post it here.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by History Buff

Sure there are a few benefits to building some warehouses and soccer pitches because it employees a few people but I feel that Langford is only concerned about its bottom line and spend too much time thinking about how to fatten up its tax base with no thought to green space.

News Flash! Jobs are important. I also think having a place to shop, live, play sports, and having somewhere indoors to take your kids to play and get some exercise is pretty important too. It's odd how you downplay the number of jobs the development has created (both temporary jobs in it's construction and permanent jobs in the businesses that are built) which surely must number into the hundreds by saying it employs a "few people". And no, I don't live there but I will adamantly defend the right of others to. So you don't like the look of the development? So what? Don't buy a house there then! I really don't think losing

Originally Posted by LJ

an unused, weedy, unsightly area

is any loss at all so you might want to change your moniker to "Irrational Nostalgia Buff".

[History Buff]

Affordability is based on how much the Developer thinks they can squeeze out of the wallets of potential buyers. In the case of Westhills they are marketing to younger families and probably first or second time buyers.
Saying that leaving green space or leaving natural area makes the home less affordable is absurd.
The money spent blowing up things and crushing rock is far more than what would be lost by leaving some forested areas and not using it as a source of revenue.

Kettle Creek and Westhills will will age fast and will become like trailer parks. Kettle Creek from a high vantage point already looks like a trailer park.
Oh and to the person that said Hulls field was nothing but just an unused, weedy, unsightly area I highly doubt that you actually spent any time in it and this I conclude from your statement. It actually wasnt a field rather a wetland.

Kind of like Rithets Bog near Royal Oak. Do you also think that Saanich council of the day should have filled it in with rock and built it up like Langford ? It too was an unsightly unused area of weeds?

Once this stuff is gone that's it.
Town and City councils really need to look at places like this and llok towards the future. I am sure that in the future generations will look at Langfords Land use and wonder why there no natural areas. They will wonder why.
Langford Lake Basin will turn into or is currently in the beginning phase of becoming a catch basin for all the run-off of the surrounding development.


Langford- Vancouver Island's Version of Surrey
Westhills -Langfords Version of Blanshard Court




In a short number of years Westhills and Kettle creek will be one large subdivision.The area in Yellow will have NO trees and it will be wall to wall house (literally) and more warehouses and parking lots.

Dont believe me?
Stay tuned for a before and after picture in a few more years.

[sebberry]

I dislike seeing trees cut down as much as the next guy, but without developments like these, where do you propose people live?

[Nparker]

Originally Posted by sebberry

I dislike seeing trees cut down as much as the next guy, but without developments like these, where do you propose people live?

That's easy - increase the density of the areas that have already been built upon. Several million people live on the island of Manhattan, I am certain the core municipalities in the CRD could absorb several hundred thousand more without having to cut down a single tree. Suburban sprawl is not the only answer to growth.

[sebberry]

I'm not sure I like the idea of residential skyscrapers in a region where a M9 earthquake is likely.

[Lover Fighter]

Hi History Bluff, your bring some interesting background to this area.
I just happened to be walking around Langford Lake on the weekend and was wondering about the history of the lake. If I am interpreting your post correctly, Langford Lake used to drain south into Glen Lake before construction of the railway? This would be hydrologically interesting, if true.

Also of interest to me is the abandoned spur line of the E&N pictured in the "now" photo of your original post. I happened to wander across it and was wondering the history of it as well. Do you know its original purpose?

[Bernard]

There is a demand for single family homes. This is frankly a good location for it as most it is not being built on land that had high values for other uses.

For there to be higher density elsewhere in the city, you need to open up the places with large lots to subdivision but in many areas that is simply not an option. Uplands and Broadmead would be two good areas for higher suburban density, but it is not going to happen.

[pseudotsuga]

It is too bad Westhills didn't retain more of the original trees and landscape but I actually think it has potential to be a bit nicer (than it is currently anyway) when the landscaping/new trees grow in.

and thanks for posting the photos History Buff. The comparisons are very interesting.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Bernard

Uplands and Broadmead would be two good areas for higher suburban density, but it is not going to happen.

I'm sure at one point those developments were considered to be fairly dense.

[History Buff]

Langford Lake is at a higher elevation than Glen Lake.
Langford Lake 62m
Glen Lake 30m

Glen Lake drain at the eastern end near Jacklin Rd . It goes under the road and meanders through Sun Valley Heights subdivision then on to Colwood Creek Estates where it forms Colwood lake on Aldeande rd. From there it crosses under Sooke Rd and through Royal Roads University where it empties into the Esquimalt Lagoon.

It cant empty into Langford Lake nor does Langford Lake drain into Glen lake



Langford Lake currently drains form the north end in the hand dug ditch. if you look at the CRD map viewer or Google earth you can see that it is an UN-natural water course. It runs in a completely straight line ( like a ditch ) to Ice Cream Mountain . From there it goes near the BC Parks Group site then comes out and flows down the side of the TCH near suicide corner then goes under the highway and dumps into Goldstream River through a culvert


Before the E&N railway was built..During high water the lake drained out into (over flowed ) into Hulls field from there is flowed out to Colwood Creek to join up with the water coming out of Glen Lake. the water still flows but is all under ground. When the e&N was built a small culvert probably a box culvert made of wood was placed under the rail bed to Hulls Field . this culvert was not large enough and was probably the reason that the lake started to back up and why Charles Pooley gave the OK for the ditch to be dug to drain the Lake to the North. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Edward_Pooley
There are a few areas where you can see it . Near the football field/ Bowling alley. (Ill post pictures later this evening)

That is a whole other story. Pooley was a avid Hunter and had political influence. He gave the OK for the Chinese labourers to Dig the ditch. there were a lot of Chinese around because they had worked on on construction of the E& N.
There is a rd named for Pooley. Pooley Place in Esquimalt

The creek ( from Langford Lake) flows under Canwest mall through a large concrete pipe. (Bowker Creek ring a bell?)

You can see some of the creek next to the Hydro Substation on Jacklin rd. look for the two Large Green transmission Towers with all the cell phone gear on the top. Right at the base of it you will see a very small wetland. this is about all that remains of the Hulls Field wetland

Langford Lake is also on part of a fault line that runs from Loss Creek (Between Jordan River and Port Renfrew) Have a look at Google Earth . Start at Loss Creek and follow the Fault like Loss Creek-Diversion Reservoir-Bear Creek Reservoir-Leech Town/ Leech River- then onto Langford lake and finally to Esquimalt Lagoon.
The area was soured by Glaciation and Langford lake to Esquimalt Lagoon are the Terminal Moraines of the last Glaciers. that is the reason there is so Much Gravel in those area . The big block of Ice at geologist feel was responsible for creating Langford Lake is also responsible for creating the surrounding landscapes and determining where the water flowed.

Westhills has good examples of glaciation. Where they have stripped away all the vegetation one can see evidence of ice flows


The reason for me starting this thread was that I felt that the Hulls Field area could have been planned better.Westhills is part of that ecosystem so that why I include that. The creek and more of the wetlands could have been retained. Maybe in the centre or some where. All we have now is 50 metres here 20 metres there.
Its all about making as much money as possible.
I find it highly ironic that there is talk ( and there has been work done) to expose parts of Bowker Creek that have been buried for decades. and here we are doing it all over again in a new area. Seems that no lessons have been learned from past mistakes.

As for the question about the Rail Spur Line I did not understand what you were asking about specifically.


On a final note I will also tell you this story.
Off Dunford road where Henry Eng Place is located. That Used to be a gravel Pit. They dug and dug and dug. Eventually the owners of the pit had dug so much that they hit water. They realized that they had dug to below the level of Langford lake and they had to stop . If they didnt they would have lowered the level and possible drained Langford lake. Water is connected. Just because you cant see it now doesnt mean its not there.

[History Buff]

At either end of these small area are culverts that carry the water out of sight.
A gas line runs down the middle and as you can see from the water stains on the yellow gas line marker... the seasonal fluctuation in water levels is still active and significant.






Its amazing that water fowl still use the area but now they seem to be out of place

Birds of Prey such as this Red tailed Hawk are even still found here even though efforts have been made (spikes on the lamp standard) to keep them out . This hawk was eating another bird when I first saw it.



The Destruction of this wetland was done under the watch of Stew Young who has been mayor of Langford for years.
Stewart Young owns or is now part owner of ALPINE Disposal


Its Ironic that Alpine cares so much about the environment

[Nparker]

Originally Posted by Bernard

For there to be higher density elsewhere in the city, you need to open up the places with large lots to subdivision...

Since this is not really the correct thread to be discussing this I won't go into a lot of detail, but MUCH greater density could be achieved in many areas of the CRD simply by going just a little higher. If every 4-storey condo building erected in the last 20 years were just twice as tall, we'd have thousands of more housing units with little to no impact on available land. Imagine the Shelbourne corridor with just somewhat taller buildings and you can see where I am going with this. I realize this an overly simplified concept, but I must reiterate that urban sprawl does not have to be a given. It's a choice many have made and the increasing destruction of virgin land is the price we all are paying.

[Bingo]

The area is a glacial floodplain approximately 13,000 years old that was formed when a large ice-dam blocked Goldstream River from flowing north into Finlayson Arm, and diverted the meltwater to the sea west of Esquimalt Lagoon.

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library...s/bib82911.pdf

Langford and Glen lakes are likely "kettles" formed from large pieces of melting ice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettle_(landform)