[Johnson Street Bridge] General discussion

[aastra]

The parkade beneath my children's museum there would probably also be good for the parking situation in the Dockside Green area.

[AnonAnnie2]

*bump*

Originally Posted by AnonAnnie2

Interrupting this thread to bring you a public service announcement.

JSB.org is a little less than half-way to covering costs for the campaign - public awareness re: Counter Petition.
The fine folks who footed the bill are working joe and jane's like you and me.
Any help is appreciated.
Donations can be mailed to;
JSB
942 Richmond Ave.
Victoria BC V8S 3Z2

Thank you regular programming will now resume.

[gumgum]

Originally Posted by aastra

The parkade beneath my children's museum there would probably also be good for the parking situation in the Dockside Green area.

Aha!!! I knew evil Dockside was up to something!

[UrbanRail]

Originally Posted by aastra

I'm also disappointed in UrbanRail's drawing. The lack of detail in the trees really takes away from it.

Why not terminate the tracks just before the curve and then get rid of the curve, too? Satisfy the shaky drivers and the city's engineers at the same time. Is there value in continuing the tracks across the bridge or isn't there? Unless the tracks are going to be used for commuter rail, I don't think there's real value.

I've asked this before but I don't think anyone replied: what's the deal with the access road to the Delta Hotel?

LOL, Ok you have all convinced me, I will do an updated drawing that includes more details in the trees. .

Give me a couple of weeks and I will have a drawing to show you.

Aastra I was thinking of using the entire warehouse site. Like this.

[Bingo]

The access road to the Delta Ocean Pointe Resort goes over the old E&N rail bridge, and lines up with the rail span of the Blue Bridge. There are two side by side rail bridges over the "S" curve. The one currently used by the E&N was part of the interchange from the days when CN was still around. There were parallell tracks going to the roundhouse.

If the "S" curve was eliminated this access road would also disappear.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The access road to the Delta Ocean Pointe Resort goes over the old E&N rail bridge, and lines up with the rail span of the Blue Bridge. There are two side by side rail bridges over the "S" curve. The one currently used by the E&N was part of the interchange from the days when CN was still around. There were parallell tracks going to the roundhouse.

If the "S" curve was eliminated this access road would also disappear.

This is a direct quote from one councillor this month, which indicates that the access to Ocean Pointe is some type of arrangement that they have a vested interest in:

The deal breaker, however, for lane configurations on the bridge, will
likely be access to the Ocean Pointe, who I am confident would be quite
resistant to the proposal that their access ramp disappear in favour of
a lane reduction scheme. That it itself could expose the city to
economic liabilities that may be comparable to those suffered by Cambie
St. merchants in Vancouver whose lost business has become, by virtue of
a recent court decision, the responsibility of Translink and their
contractors.

[aastra]

That's what I was getting at. Thanks for that info, VHF.

[R0ark]

^^ It's not hard to guess the name of the above-mentioned Councillor with an obsession about any and every potential collateral economic liability while ignoring the direct/obvious one pointed at the pocket books of the tax-payers by demanding a new bridge for his wife to ride to work and back over rather than considering upgrades to the existing one.

[Holden West]

Good. Here's some actual news. The story is covered in the Daily Commercial News, companion to the Journal of Commerce.

And a letter to the editor:

As one who signed the Johnson Street Bridge petition purely to see where this whole venture would lead, it’s been interesting to note the groups who rose from the democratic swamp to drag on the debate.

[aastra]

Emergent issues? That writer doesn't seem to understand that a lot of people were miffed precisely because the city suddenly decided to portray the longstanding bridge maintenance saga as an emergent issue.

[Bob Fugger]

Then there are those who simply don’t want the bridge replaced because it’s too much money.

Watch for their reaction if an exhaustive study actually shows that replacement is the most efficient way to go. Were they really concerned with process or just the decision?

If an exhaustive study comparing refurbishment to replacement concludes that replacement is the superior option and can quantify/qualify the rationale, then I would have to agree (with a tear) to tear the old girl down.

Another group is composed of poor saps like me, who thought that receiving a report, reading it, and actually making a decision (unlike previous councils) was good enough. And yeah, they may have glossed over a few things while doing this. (emphasis added)

Glossed over a few things? Like what, that the current bridge might actually be totally sound and salvageable? That undertaking a potentially unneccessary capital expenditure might bankrupt the City? Oh well, if that's all...

...and as for the writer's opening salvo:

As one who signed the Johnson Street Bridge petition purely to see where this whole venture would lead, it’s been interesting to note the groups who rose from the democratic swamp to drag on the debate.

Seriously? You signed it as part of a personal little socio-political experiment? Doesn't that seem to be a bit super-villanish? (I think I can actually see him twiddling his Dick Dastardly moustache while penning this) *shrug* Well, I suppose this is democracy...to paraphrase Voltaire: I disapprove of your moronity, but I will defend to the death your right to be a moron.

[Bingo]

I see that former assistant city manager Mike McCliggott is now general manager of corporate services.

McCliggott will be remembered in the bridge debate for his comments "It would financially strap the city", referring to replacing the bridge without raising taxes, or obtaining government grants.

Director of engineering and public works, Peter Sparanese is moving to general manager of operations. Both McCliggott and Sparanese will report to city manager Gail Stephens.

The city is also hiring an in-house lawyer to manage the day to day activities.

[Bob Fugger]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I see that former assistant city manager Mike McCliggott is now general manager of corporate services.

McCliggott will be remembered in the bridge debate for his comments "It would financially strap the city", referring to replacing the bridge without raising taxes, or obtaining government grants.

Director of engineering and public works, Peter Sparanese is moving to general manager of operations. Both McCliggott and Sparanese will report to city manager Gail Stephens.

The city is also hiring an in-house lawyer to manage the day to day activities.

See, this is what the 23% tax increase over 5 years is funding. Now you have a City Manager ($200k+), to whom a General Manager, a Corporate Services Manager, a Communications Manager and a Legislative Services Manager report ($100k+ - please correct me if I am missing someone), to whom report a matrix of other Managers ($75k+).

And they're likely using the same argument that the Province is using, that you have to pay folks exorbitant sums to get the creme de la creme out here, and that organizations can no longer rely on the oceans, mountain and climate to draw highly qualified individuals out here. Bollocks.

[victorian fan]

Victoria city hall filling positions
BILL CLEVERLEY, TC JANUARY 29, 2010

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Vi...362/story.html

[mat]

Councillor Young has once again agreed to publication of his email reply to letters/emails he has received since the January petition campaign and special council meeting.

CoV council meets on Thursday Feb. 18th to receive a report from staff, and will discuss the bridge. In light of this - quote from Geoff Young - has the public been consulted, or made aware on how CoV is going about gathering info on repair?

Public process

Our citizens will have high expectations for the process Council uses to listen to them on this issue. I think the Council should use this project as a practical test of the various public engagement methods we are now studying, so that when we do go to referendum the public will be confident that they have had ample opportunity both to be informed about the options available and to present their own views.

Full post

Will the report meet Councillor Young's expectations?

[Fresca]

New here, so not sure if this is where my comment belongs. Forgive me if this should be somewhere else.
Every week, I cycle across the bridge at least ten times to and from work. On the weekends, my family drives over the bridge many more times while running errands and visiting family. I have to say, that as a motorist and a pedestrain the bridge is fine. But as a cyclist, the bridge is a nightmare to access from either end - it can be downright scary. And I'm normally confident and feel safe on my bike in traffic. Not so on the JSB. So I am very, very, very hopeful a cycling-friendly solution can be found.

I live in Esquimalt and would be MORE than happy to share paying for a new or improved bridge...but only if it makes cycling more convenient and safer.

[VicHockeyFan]

^ Welcome to the board, Fresca. We are share your view, the bridge is the pits for cyclists. But we think we need not throw the whole thing away to fix it just as good as all the cyclists want it.

[Fresca]

Thanks for the welcome.

Since I'm not a Victoria taxpayer, I don't get much of a say anyway (which I have to admit annoys me as a daily bridge user). But I'm open to anything - even if it's just a redesign of the blue bridge - that improves the cycling access. I do fear though that the city will end up going with a weak solution that tries to make everyone happy, only to end up back here in another 20 years.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Fresca

Thanks for the welcome.

Since I'm not a Victoria taxpayer, I don't get much of a say anyway (which I have to admit annoys me as a daily bridge user). But I'm open to anything - even if it's just a redesign of the blue bridge - that improves the cycling access. I do fear though that the city will end up going with a weak solution that tries to make everyone happy, only to end up back here in another 20 years.

All Victorians enjoy the historic Blue Bridge, and we all paid taxes into the federal fund that is presently available to repair it. The approaches can be improved no matter what option the city decides on. Any modern decking and roadway materials that are available for new bridge construction are also available for the refurbishment of the Johnson Street Bridge. There are engineers that know how to address all the concerns of cyclists, pedestrians and motorists, and they are waiting for the city to call.

[LJ]

Originally Posted by Bingo

All Victorians enjoy the historic Blue Bridge, .

Really? You polled them all?

[Bernard]

I for one have never liked the Blue Bridge, going back to 1983 when I first moved here I have not liked the look of it.

[Baro]

I was talking to the bridge the other day and it said the same about you. I wish we could all just get along better.

[Fresca]

I think it's ugly too. Ugly, rusty, and older than dirt. But the good news is that can all be changed or improved.

I really wish everyone who actually uses the bridge could have a voice in whatever decision is made - and not just Victorians. It's a little bit frustrating having the decisions solely in the hands of only one city, when those of us who live in Esquimalt also have a vested interest in the process. Anyway, that's life.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Fresca

I think it's ugly too. Ugly, rusty, and older than dirt. But the good news is that can all be changed or improved.

I really wish everyone who actually uses the bridge could have a voice in whatever decision is made - and not just Victorians. It's a little bit frustrating having the decisions solely in the hands of only one city, when those of us who live in Esquimalt also have a vested interest in the process. Anyway, that's life.

If the other munis wished to share their proportion of the costs, we'd be happy to let them have a say.

[Fresca]

Maybe we could just amalgamate.