News item: Oak Bay home too modern for neighbours' tastes

[aastra]

Who's sneering? I'm sure not. Are the folks who picket in front of a new house sneering? Picketing in front of a new house seems rather scornful to me.

The only place I reject outright in this entire thread is that one on May Street. I'd wave a magic wand to change it if I could (although I sure wouldn't picket in front of it). But otherwise, different strokes for different folks. Even that place across the street from Fugger's modern house has a right to exist as far as I'm concerned.

It's what distinguishes these neighbourhoods from the ticky tacky...

That's absolutely right. It's the difference between a real evolving city neighbourhood and the cookie-cutter stuff you often see in the suburbs.

[skeptic]

Originally Posted by Sparky

I sure hope we do not loose our rights and freedoms to design our own homes. That would be terrible to have the local government dictate styles.

I agree. But by the same token I think the community has the right to protest a design (even if the protest will come to nought)--that's called free speech, and it's even more important than the right to build a vulgar-looking house. Think what you like about the citizens of Oak Bay, but they obviously care about their community and there is nothing wrong with them trying to defend the qualities that they find valuable.

The fact that the developers typically ignore these protests is an indication that they have no stake in the community.

There's nothing anyone can do about that but sneering at people for bemoaning it is pretty rude. If the shoe was on the other foot and you complained about Mayor Fortin deciding to open a "safe" injection site across the street from your place, how would you feel if the response was "suck it up, it's a free country?"

[G-Man]

So what does this house look like that it is soo out of place?

[skeptic]

Originally Posted by aastra

Who's sneering? I'm sure not. Are the folks who picket in front of a new house sneering? Picketing in front of a new house seems rather scornful to me.

The entire first page of this thread is sneering (with some obvious envy thrown in for good measure). Check your dictionary for the definitions of "sneering" and "scornful." There's quite a difference.

[aastra]

My dictionary must be broken:

Sneer:
to speak or write in a manner expressive of derision or scorn.

Scornful:
full of scorn; derisive; contemptuous.

I mean, seriously. You could have looked that up in two seconds but instead you plowed in and put your foot in your mouth. What's the deal?

Look, this is a forum. If somebody has touched a nerve, here's your opportunity to make your case. Instead of rambling and throwing tomatoes at people, try making some meaningful points. Persuade us. You've actually got it pretty easy with me because I already respect your right not to like the new house right out of the gate. And I'm not exactly thrilled with the drawings that were shown in that news video, either. So convince me that some sort of strict and comprehensive style guideline would be a good thing.

...they obviously care about their community and there is nothing wrong with them trying to defend the qualities that they find valuable.

Good point. And how about those Oak Bay residents who have no problem with the new house or who like the new house because it embodies the qualities that they find valuable? Do they count? Should we dismiss them because their non-negative reaction to the new house obviously indicates a lack of regard for their community?

The fact that the developers typically ignore these protests is an indication that they have no stake in the community.

Sort of like those evil condo developers (and buyers) downtown?

I feel like the dialogue on VibrantVictoria.ca has been set back several years in just the past few posts.

[Bob Fugger]

[aastra]

I'd really be interested in hearing what skeptic thinks about the various houses that people have identified in this thread. Which ones are acceptable and which ones aren't (if any), and why?

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by skeptic

I agree. But by the same token I think the community has the right to protest a design (even if the protest will come to nought)--that's called free speech, and it's even more important than the right to build a vulgar-looking house.

You say they are vulgar, and you say they are built on spec, but somebody built them, and somebody bought them. So somebody likes them, and presumably does not think they are vulgar.

319 Chester for sale, mentioned earlier in thread:

http://www.propertiesinvictoria.com/...g/319-chester/

$1,390,000

[skeptic]

Originally Posted by aastra

My dictionary must be broken:

Sneer:
to speak or write in a manner expressive of derision or scorn.

Scornful:
full of scorn; derisive; contemptuous.

I mean, seriously. You could have looked that up in two seconds but instead you plowed in and put your foot in your mouth. What's the deal?

Sneer: a contemptuous or mocking smile, remark, or tone

Scorn: The feeling that someone or something is worthless or despicable

There is a subtle difference. Perhaps I shouldn't have suggested it was an obvious difference.

Look, this is a forum. If somebody has touched a nerve, here's your opportunity to make your case. Instead of rambling and throwing tomatoes at people, try making some meaningful points. Persuade us.

I made a case. You just don't agree with it.

You've actually got it pretty easy with me because I already respect your right not to like the new house right out of the gate. And I'm not exactly thrilled with the drawings that were shown in that news video, either. So convince me that some sort of strict and comprehensive style guideline would be a good thing.

I already said I belive people should be able to build what they want (within the bylaws), but also that other people should be free to complain.

And how about those Oak Bay residents who have no problem with the new house or who like the new house because it embodies the qualities that they find valuable? Do they count? Should we dismiss them because their non-negative reaction to the new house obviously indicates a lack of regard for their community?

What's your point? Were they out there waving placards saying "we love this fugly house?"

Sort of like those evil condo developers (and buyers) downtown?

Er, no, I am pro developement, as you would realize if you looked at posts I have made in the past.

I feel like the dialogue on VibrantVictoria.ca has been set back several years in just the past few posts.

OK, I don't get that but whatever.

Originally Posted by aastra

I'd really be interested in hearing what skeptic thinks about the various houses that people have identified in this thread. Which ones are acceptable and which ones aren't (if any), and why?

What difference would that make? I don't live in those neighborhoods.

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

You say they are vulgar, and you say they are built on spec, but somebody built them, and somebody bought them. So somebody likes them, and presumably does not think they are vulgar.

Well, they probably haven't been bought yet. But what is your point? The neighbors don't like it and they said so. All they did was express their opinion. Nothing will be done about it.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by skeptic

Well, they probably haven't been bought yet. But what is your point? The neighbors don't like it and they said so. All they did was express their opinion. Nothing will be done about it.

I think my point since I started this thread was that I agree that neighbours don't like it. It's clear they don't. But making placards and protesting in front of the home that offends them I find so mean-spirited.

[skeptic]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

I think my point since I started this thread was that I agree that neighbours don't like it. It's clear they don't. But making placards and protesting in front of the home that offends them I find so mean-spirited.

I think whether a protest qualifies as "mean-spirited" is a function of the type and degree of perceived wrong. When the needle exchange was on Cormorant Street I didn't see people complaining about addicts defecating on their doorsteps condemned as "mean-spirited." The folks on Monterey aren't complaining about the colour of their neighbors' skin, their social pedigree or their sexual orientation. They are complaining about a house design that intrudes on the neigborhood and, as Bob Fugger says, raises a middle finger to the neighborhood. Furthermore, as I have stated, the protests are directed at the developer, not the people who will eventually purchase the property.

[LJ]

Originally Posted by skeptic

Furthermore, as I have stated, the protests are directed at the developer, not the people who will eventually purchase the property.

Is it a spec house or is it being built for someone?

[LJ]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

I think my point since I started this thread was that I agree that neighbours don't like it. It's clear they don't. But making placards and protesting in front of the home that offends them I find so mean-spirited.

Especially when it is going to have absolutely zero effect.

Mind you, I feel that way with most protests. If there is something your government is doing you don't like, vote for somebody else. If those "other folks" keep voting the wrong guy in, maybe it's you that has a problem or lives in the wrong area.

If they make their protests loud enough that no normal person would ever buy the place, who do you think will buy the place? That's right - the neighbour from hell.

[LJ]

Here is one on Gorge Rd. that was built 2-3 years ago. I think it fits in great.

(link didn't work)
try this one

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Gorge+R...=12,44.21,,0,0

[Bob Fugger]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

You say they are vulgar, and you say they are built on spec, but somebody built them, and somebody bought them. So somebody likes them, and presumably does not think they are vulgar.

319 Chester for sale, mentioned earlier in thread:

http://www.propertiesinvictoria.com/...g/319-chester/

$1,390,000

Somebody, but who? This house has been on the market FOREVER. Much, much longer than the average DOM for the area.

[jklymak]

Originally Posted by LJ

Especially when it is going to have absolutely zero effect.

Mind you, I feel that way with most protests. If there is something your government is doing you don't like, vote for somebody else. If those "other folks" keep voting the wrong guy in, maybe it's you that has a problem or lives in the wrong area.

I think protests, particularly ones that attract the media, are a good way to build public opinion about something. If no one protests, how does an issue become part of the public discourse?

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by jklymak

I think protests, particularly ones that attract the media, are a good way to build public opinion about something. If no one protests, how does an issue become part of the public discourse?

My issues are where the protest was aimed, and where it took place. Misguided. And seriously, of all the things to protest, they choose this?

"I don't like what YOU are doing, on YOUR property, with YOUR money, within all regulations - regulations that the politicians that I elected fully allow. I don't like the "look" of YOUR house! Build YOUR house the way I want it built!"

Would the protesters carry signs with those slogans? That is what they are saying.

It's very pathetic, I think.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by jklymak

I think protests, particularly ones that attract the media, are a good way to build public opinion about something. If no one protests, how does an issue become part of the public discourse?

I enjoy the expression of discourse that we are able to have on VV. We have some bright and influentual minds going over all the hot topics, and this forum attracts the media like s**t to a blanket. It's the first thing our politicians tune into over their morning coffee.

I'm considering building a boat in my forth floor apartment, just so that the neighbours can't watch me do it.

[dasmo]

That house on Chester completely blends in and is very understated from the street side F.Y.I... I think I'll start a campaign forcing everyone in OakBay to tear down their boring Post war bungalows because...well...they bore MY sence of design!

[Bob Fugger]

Originally Posted by dasmo

That house on Chester completely blends in and is very understated from the street side.

Is this sarcasm? If not, I couldn't disagree more with you. It overpowers the lot and if not for the tree in front of it, obfuscating the Google Street View, it is quite the opposite of understated.

In conclusion, I'm right and you're wrong. I win three Internets for besting you in this debate, huzzah!

[dasmo]

When your feet are on the ground there the juxtaposition of this house to the less "architectural" houses that flank it has less impact that in the map view. I win five Internizzles for using a more artsy word than you!

[VicHockeyFan]

319 Chester certainly seems to be the most expensive 2-bedroom house in the region. For the same listing price, you can get a 17-bedroom, 18-bathroom up off Rockland.

[UrbanRail]

Isnt this the same Oak Bay that had neighbours scream because some guy built a treehouse in his backyard for his kids about 3 inches too close to his neighbours yard and painted it pink?

The same Oak Bay that has a bylaw that doesnt allow outdoor clothes hanging because its too ghetto?

[VicHockeyFan]

I wonder what the Tinto Rocks would do?

[gumgum]

319 Chester certainly seems to be the most expensive 2-bedroom house in the region. For the same listing price, you can get a 17-bedroom, 18-bathroom up off Rockland.

That's it. However they did have an offer that fell through within a week of first going up.
Hey Fugger, I'm going to be naughty and use your past words against you. I swear it was you that claimed to like this one?. Apart from its shape I don't think it fits into the neighbourhood at all. It's a completely different design. Why is this one OK? How much can a house deviate from other homes in the area before it becomes too different?

Personally if the house is designed well and made of good quality materials, I appreciate every house to a certain level. (As long as it's not too big.)