Rental housing & related issues discussion

[Caramia]

Federal tax changes saw to that.

[jklymak]

^ & ^^ From which I take it that legislating rental housing is not really viable - you have to make it economically favourable. I agree with the point someone here made a long time ago that any building is good for housing so long as it has more density than what it replaced. Sure, the Chelsea may not be full of renters, but the people who moved out of the Manhattan to move there freed up a home for folks who lived in a 4-story condo cnversion, who in turn sold to an investor who rents the place out. In 50 years the Chelsea will be full of renters, whereas if we'd built something that was rent specific, it'd have been torn down.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by Bob Fugger

Yes, I realize what we're talking about. What I'm suggesting is that perhaps the concept of purpose-built rentals is an antiquated model because there are no longer the incentives there once were, therefore rendering them uneconomcal. Couple that with the increased prevalence of rentable condos (where the builder gets paid and the risks/responsibilities are spread around amongst the unit owners), and you start to see why you haven't seen a new purpose-built rental building built in the core for 15 years.

That doesn't make it antiquated, it just means some of the grants stopped. From a renter perspective there is not the same confidence that you will continue to be able to rent in a condo building vs a pure rental building. While I owned a condo they were many attempts to change the rental rules.

[Caramia]

^^ no argument about the futility of legislating. Also agree that adding quality at the high end of the housing stock is in general good for long term housing needs. Shoal point will make a great tenement one day! However the rental construction boom ended directly after changes to the tax structure on a federal level, when taxes were readjusted to make it uneconomical to build rental housing. There's a great report about this out there somewhere by a cast of Victoria rental luminaries, including the Rental Owners & Managers Society of BC (ROMS BC) and Colliers.

With this recession we've seen a variety of lower priced condos and now a rental. It makes me wonder how the recession plays into making the numbers work? Is it just the lack of speculators that has changed things? Types of liquidity available? I don't know.

[Kapten Kapsell]

Originally Posted by G-Man

That doesn't make it antiquated, it just means some of the grants stopped. From a renter perspective there is not the same confidence that you will continue to be able to rent in a condo building vs a pure rental building. While I owned a condo they were many attempts to change the rental rules.

But if a strata opts to start restricting rentals, wouldn't existing renters be 'grandfathered'? For example, if a condo building decided to restrict rentals to 10 out of 100 units, but 15 were currently leased, wouldn't all current tenants get to stay and even renew leases...?

[Caramia]

In the last year or two of the last Council's regime, I don't believe that they were even allowing people to get the condo zoning without a covenant agreeing to allow rentals. I'm assuming that's still the norm at City Hall with the new council. Probably doesn't cover anything that's not new though.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by BCguy75

But if a strata opts to start restricting rentals, wouldn't existing renters be 'grandfathered'? For example, if a condo building decided to restrict rentals to 10 out of 100 units, but 15 were currently leased, wouldn't all current tenants get to stay and even renew leases...?

Sure but that is my point it is not a permanent guaranteed rental building over the long term.

[jklymak]

^ Not quite - owners are grandfathered, not tenants. So as long as your landlord owns the place you or someone else can keep renting it. I suppose your point is that small-time landlords are more likely to sell than large companies, but considering the condo conversions that have taken place I'm not convinced that it is really more secure to rent in a "rental" building than in a condo.

[Caramia]

Rent increases are limited to prime minus 1, so the rent cannot go up much each year. In times of economic boom especially, landlords are pressured by rising prices to get the units to turn over, because only between tenants can they jack rents enough to cover their own cost increases. Landlords are less motivated to solve disputes with long term tenants as a result. Someone who has lived in a rental for over a decade is probably still paying a relatively low rent compared to what you could charge a new tenant.

The rent control measure is meant to protect the renter, but the unfortunate byproduct is that long term rentals are not as secure as they could be.

[jklymak]

^ And you can add that to the tax changes as a reason fewer rentals are being built. Which, ironically, drives up rents.

[Rob Randall]

Toronto rental company adds eight buildings to Victoria portfolio

By Robert Randall • Published on Friday, July 30, 2010 •

Toronto-based CAPREIT today announced the purchase of eight low-rise apartment properties in or near Victoria, British Columbia. The acquisition adds 307 suites to their inventory of local rental units.

The portfolio of older buildings was bought from another Ontario-based rental firm, TransGlobe for approximately $46 million, excluding closing and transaction costs.

[VicHockeyFan]

Originally Posted by Rob Randall

Toronto rental company adds eight buildings to Victoria portfolio

By Robert Randall • Published on Friday, July 30, 2010 •

These are quality properties with significant upside potential.

1. Niagara Court Apartments – 535 Niagara Street
2. Kamel Point Village Apartments – 70-76 Dallas Road
3. Sansar Apartments – 1140 Hillside Avenue
4. Gorge Towers – 200 Gorge Road W
5. Sentinel Apartments – 625 Constance Avenue
6. Mayfair Manor – 827 Selkirk Avenue
7. Fair Oaks Apartments – 3501 Savannah Avenue
8. Queens Avenue Apartments – 1110 Queens Avenue


Quality, no. Upside, yes.

[Rob Randall]

According to CARFEIT's numbers, the average cost of the Victoria suites was around $150,000 each. The Quebec and Ontario buildings they recently sold for $30 million contained 908 suites which works out to just over $33,000 per suite.

The sold off buildings were in Montreal, Kitchener and Mississauga.

[sebberry]

Who owns/manages View Towers?

[Rob Randall]

^I believe it is still the Mulek family.

[Sparky]

^ View Towers is managed by Westsea Construction in Vancouver. They also manage an apartment building on Michigan. They actually do a pretty good job considering the product they have to deal with.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by VicHockeyFan

1. Niagara Court Apartments – 535 Niagara Street
2. Kamel Point Village Apartments – 70-76 Dallas Road
3. Sansar Apartments – 1140 Hillside Avenue
4. Gorge Towers – 200 Gorge Road W
5. Sentinel Apartments – 625 Constance Avenue
6. Mayfair Manor – 827 Selkirk Avenue
7. Fair Oaks Apartments – 3501 Savannah Avenue
8. Queens Avenue Apartments – 1110 Queens Avenue


Quality, no. Upside, yes.

Actually a number of these buildings were owned by the Jawl group of companies and were in excellent condition and were managed and maintained at a high standard.

Likely, the "quality" at present is somewhat less than a few years ago.

[Sparky]

Interesting website for appartment dwellers that are contemplating a move into another building and are concerned about bedbugs.

http://www.bedbugregistry.com/locati...5-Catherine-St

[victorian fan]

Holy smokes. Look at that list. I'd heard about an outbreak but ....oh dear.

[sebberry]

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/c...entid=25092518

[Sparky]

^ Timely article Seb. Thanks

The polar bear avatar suits you.

[Ms. B. Havin]

omg... that list and the article posted by seb are exactly the sort of thing to make me paranoid. I remember the first case of cockroaches I experienced. And mice. And then worrying about head lice outbreaks with the ickle kiddy-winkies. Then rats (cue the creepy music for "roof rats"...). Yuck yuck yuck. Definitely not the sort of thing I like hearing about. :-/

[Rob Randall]

It looks like several more of the apartments Cap Reit bought last year are being renovated. The latest is Tara Place on View St., which is now shrouded in tarps. I don't know if it's new windows, paint or a full-on remediation but it looks extensive.

[Dylan Leblanc]

Driving around town lately I've noticed a number of For Rent signs in front of houses, something which I never saw a few years ago. Perhaps the rental market isn't as tight as it used to be?

[arfenarf]

I'm kind of hoping so. Will be in the market for a 3br in the Victoria/Urban Saanich/OB core in the next few months.

I've been scanning padmapper.com, which seems to be a cool aggregator of listings.

The kicker for me is my 6yo retriever. He's a good dog, immaculately trained etc., etc., etc. Property managers won't even discuss him. Generally, the houses posted as dog-friendly are either fiercely expensive or dumps. I'm hoping to find a private lease with someone who's willing to walk through my current home and see that, really, we take good care of a place.

Is there such a thing as a Rental Yenta? Someone who could represent my interests and work the rental market network to help me find a place?